George Packer, long time writer for the New Yorker, was this year’s Carolyn Cockefair Benton Lecturer at UMKC. He spoke Thursday on “What is ISIS and Why Are We Back in Iraq?”
Much of his material came from his 2005 book, The Assassin’s Gate: America’s Role in Iraq.
Packer is an outspoken political liberal, once writing a non-fiction history of his family and how its fate was intertwined with the American liberal tradition over three generations, called “The Blood of the Liberals.”
As knowledgeable as he is about the Mid-East, everything gets filtered through a partisan prism, which is not surprising since his employer has become the chief theoretical organ of American liberalism, especially now that The New Republic has imploded.
The inevitable result is that everything is predictably couched in terms of DNC/MSNBC talking points.
Packer began his lecture by stating unequivocally that there was no reason for the U.S. to have gone into Iraq in the first place,unless it was out of an unsatisfied desire for revenge after 9-11, which made no sense since Iraq had nothing to do with Al-Qaeda.
One would never know from Packer’s statement to this effect that he had supported the decision to invade Iraq in 2003.
That is conveniently forgotten.
He would (and did) argue that it was the aftermath of the war that was mishandled.
When pressed for specifics, he and other critics always cite the decision to disband the Iraqi army by Paul Bremer, Bush’s first pro-counsul on the scene.
The fact that the Iraq army had already disbanded itself and that Bremer’s edict was simply recognizing a fait accompli is glossed over.In an eerie foreshadowing of the behavior of the new Iraqi Army in 2014 when faced with ISIS,the old Iraqi army in 2003 laid down their arms,shed their uniforms,and went home.They only showed up again once the war was over and they came to collect their pay,which was continued for years by the US military.(Another misconception Packer fostered last week when he said that by disbanding the Iraqi army we created a cadre of unpaid and thus disaffected ex-soldiers) Nor is it ever mentioned that veterans of Saddam’s army WERE called back to duty under the command of an Iraqi general in a unit known as the “Fallujah Brigade.”
When it was sent to that city its troops either ran away or went over to Al-Qaeda.
Finally, Packer and other critics who only turned against the war effort once it went badly fail to explain why it would have been a good idea to maintain an army whose officer corps was selected for its loyalty to Saddam and willingness to brutally suppress the Shia and Kurds, who comprise 80% of the Iraqi population.
The disbanding of Saddam’s army is always Count I of the indictment against the Bush administration for mishandling Iraq, though it’s clearly a specious argument.
The incompetence of the Maliki government is also blamed on Bush.
Packer claimed he was Bush’s “hand-chosen” selection to lead the country. Nothing could be further from the truth. Maliki was always regarded by the Bush and Obama administrations as suspect in his ties to Iran and overly sectarian in favor of the Shia. Once the last of our troops left in 2011, Maliki moved to brutally oppress the Sunni minority and this more than anything else set the stage for the rise of ISIS.
No one with Packer’s depth of knowledge could blame the problems Maliki’s government created on our preference for him over other leaders, eg. his predecessor Allawi.
While Packer’s remarks concluded with a call for the need to defeat ISIS, he was reluctant to concede the necessity of the one thing that would work, two divisions of U.S. ground troops.(Packer was,of course,part of that chorus of Bush critics who said that the other big mistake of that administration was not sending enough ground troops to Iraq. Now we’re told that any ground troops would be too many.) He did admit that “creating job opportunities in the region,” as suggested by State Department spokesperson Marie Harf last week, would not work as the solution to the rise of ISIS, in response to my question.
The rest of the Q &A was an embarrassment.
I know that I’ve bristled at times at attacks on me as an older, white male but the behavior of the others of that ilk made me blush.
Not only did they hog the floor and ask question after question, most designed to show their knowledge, but the questions themselves were inane. This was particularly disheartening since the five hundred people in the audience were largely self-selected. If you had enough interest to go out hear a foreign policy address on a sub-freezing night, one would hope you would be bright and informed enough to understand what was being discussed.
“Why don’t we get the Soviet Union (dissolved in 1991) and China and Iran to help us defeat ISIS?”
“Why don’t we just not sell them any more bullets for their guns, if they’re using captured American weapons?”
“Why don’t we encourage an underground movement of people to talk to their fellow Muslims and persuade them not to join ISIS?”
“Why don’t we tell ISIS we’ll cut off their heads if we catch them, like they’re doing to the people they capture? That will show them!”
All in all, a dismal and discouraging event!
jeez…another faceplant on kcc …but this one by my favorite new
writer…southy…who has made way for top golf at 107 and nall.!!!!!!
Southy this whole thing goes back thousands of years….with all the different
ideological groups involved in the creation of isis and the inability of them
to work together (especially in Iraq) when we turned the reins over to
a government that could not unite the different factions.
Unfortunately….6 years can make amends for George bush’s lies about
the irquis…nor the thousands of years of war and hate that will long soon
after you’re no longer here writing for hearne.
INtelligence groups tell us there are about 10,000 isis fighters…and they
are the result of many years of the u.s. government supporting regimes that
butchered and hung the very same people you say we are fighting now.
But you never read more than the manuals the right wingers put out.
If we were to move 40,000 troops into the area we would be right back
where we started..plus would give the isil group the p.r. they really
want….that this is nowa real war that they dreamed of.
Our once enemies are now our allies…our once allies and now our enemies…
we work with iran to avoid them building a nuclear bomb…hoping that
by listening to the liar Netanyahu that it will extinguish their eablity
to build a nuclear bomb…which it won’t.
For all you say…bush jr. lied and got us into a 10 year war we could never
win nor have the stomach to truly fight. Even he said te enemy was not
the iraqui people but the extremist…the exact same language Obama is using
today…saying our war is not with islam…but with the small segment of
Islamic fighters who are causing the problems.
Andnow Netanyahu…for who America has lost 10,000 young lives…spent
trillions to protexr…inundated our nation with young soldier with life long
injuries costing us over 150 billion dollars and which repubicans are calling
for cuts in those services.
I am a jew…but I am an American first. We must learn to somehw live
with te 3billion people in that relivion.
We’ve seen in Vietnam and now in Iraq….that its American blood spilled
because these two sides can t get their shit together…and that must end.
According to even Iranian sources…who have suffered greatly under
sactions….a deal could be struck to end their nuclear aspirations.
Yet this isn’ t enough for net and boner who’s only goal is to embarrass
the president when negotations are nearing hopefully some fruitful end.
The repubs want more troops…want another war…5000 more casualties…
200,000 more wounded warriors…just as the isrealis do because its
not their isreali soldiers fighting and losing their lives and limbs.
You’re an old man…don’t know if you served in the military…but war
is hell. and we have learned from the soviets and from our own expeditions
in the middle east that you can’t beat these people. Its a never ending
commitment and a never ending drain on both the lives of young kids
and our economic resources.
We can’t fight our way out of this situation. We have never been able to.
We are flying 3000 bombing raids and are taking a toll on the isis
leadership. Will it be anough….probably not…because even if we were to
destroy the enemy now…we would create tens of thousands more ready to
fight us.
Go to all the speeches you want.
Listen to the clowns at the cpac conference who talked of another armed
war for America to fight.
Times have changed. We were lied to by the bush and cheney money machines
to fight this war wjen our real enemy was not the iraqui people but al quaeda
and we can see what happened there.
As you said both Obama and bush were leary of maliki…we saw what he did
creating the hatred that led to the forming of isis.
As a jew…net and the rest of the isrealis have depnnded on American
troops, money, and blood to save their nation without ever risking
their own blood and guts to fight for their own country.
As an American…its time we extricate ourselves from there thousand year
old tribal disputes that will never be decided by war….and force them
to come to grips with their problems and solve them.
The Palestinian problem is perfect. They are considerd the scum of the
middle east. With the trillions the other arabs have they could have
built them a beautiful nation…developed a Palestinian state…instead they
have used the Palestinians as a pit bull to dog the isrealis for the few
dollars they get in return. Yet they still after 50 years as members of the
arab world live in poverty.
I invite you to go to Israel and see the numbers of Palestinians that cross the
isreali border to go to work. Its amazing…and if the Israelis gut off the
border …(which they have done_ ) Palestinians would starve.
There are so many pieces in this puzzle that fools and idiots like yourself
have no grasp on the consequences of every move made in the region.
Again….because you and those who don’t understand the situation are
nothing but dismal and disgusting fools willing to watch moreamerican
kids die and shed their limbs in an area that may never see peace in
their lifetimes.
It’sonly when leaders have the guts to sit down and talk (not fight)
that things getb done.
You know nothing about foreign policy except what you learn from right
wing books and tv.
In other words southy…you need to brush up on your history in the region
…maybe visit there (ive been 3 times) and see what the real truth is because
the peaceful factions of each group realize the words of all the great
religions….WHEN YOU SAVE ONE…YOU SAVE ALL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
your right wing rubbish belongs in the trash heap of past history.
The world is and has changed since your buddy bush lied and cheated us
into a region where peace may never come.
lastly…what do we do with the Saudis who are paying isis bills/paid al queda
bills….supported bin laden…..??????????????????? what do we do to them
when we need their oil. Never hear you talk about the supporters ofthese
horrendous terrorists who keep isis etc. financed and with cash to fight
American kids and will leave more blood and limbs in the sands ofthose
oil fields…all for the sake of oil.
Tell me something, H Man…
Did you just learn the term “face plant” or what?
You’re like a kid with a new toy. Face plant No. 507, face plant No. 508. Can’t wait for the novelty of your new word toy to wear off so we can move on to your next catch phrase.
YOU’RE AN IDIOT! I COULD CALLIT MISTAKE #1/#2
#3….WOULDNT MAKE ANY DIFFERENCE…
you’re wrong again and again and again…I could call it
losing proposition #5000…because that fairly illustrates
the number of times you’ve been wrong on subjects
you and others on here write about.
Again hearne….as they say in journalism….take on what
I say…you can’t…because in this first article I tore apart
southy and his military ideas to solve problems that will
never be solved by americans losing lives and limbs.
did you serve…you’re in your sixties…would you go to
war for another country…
americans are worn out and tired of being the worlds
policemen….either we learn to coexist or we fight
wars like we have for 227 of the last 320 years…..
its time to solve these problems the right way…or
go to the brink of diplomacy without the lies of bush
cheney and repub crowd who only want more kids
killed and limbs lost.
the world is changing…
tell me where I’m wrong hearne with facts..you can’t
….so you and Wilson and steel and the rest of the kc
gang attack everything BUT THE FACTS…
its a sad state….do some research before you take on Harley
or I’ll destroy every argument you write abou5t point
by point.
thanks for reading my post…I’m sure you learned
something that will help when you discuss the middle
east….
have a g5eayt day…
While you are having your own”g5eayt day”,why don’t you take the time to answer the four simple questions I posed to you earlier this morning, H-Man ? It should be a snap given your masterful command of the facts concerning Middle Eastern geopolitics. Please demonstrate your much vaunted ability to “destroy every argument you write abou5t” by refuting me, point by point.
Oh, please, Dwight, this has been tried over and over. He’s been proven wrong, over and over. Ask him direct questions that proves he’s wrong; he just comes back and attacks from a different angle, avoiding what you point out.
You can never pin him down with facts, thats how he hides in the dark. He avoids answering and claims he’s still 100% right, all the time, every time.
Every time he’s been wrong and it’s been pointed out, he’s simply claims he’s NOT really wrong. That’s a handy talent. He might as well rebut with something really meaningful, like, “oh huh!” or, “my daddy’s bigger than YOUR daddy…” as it would make more sense than what he says.
The best is still “the IRS scandal will be over my memorial day.” To this day, it’s still an issue, it keeps getting worse and goes deeper, but he discounts that, because only the REPUBLICANS are making it an issue. It really IS dead, it likely died the hour and minute he said it would, it’s only the Republicans trying to make something out of nothing. So, the FACT that is was in the news as late as yesterday, well over a year later from when it said it would be DEAD… doesn’t count. It’s not REALLY in the news, just some wing nuts are trying to keep it there.
You can’t ‘defeat” such a staggering logic, EVER. He has no point of reference for truth or normal. When that’s someone’s paradigm, it’s like my grandfather told me; you don’t wrestle with a pig. It only takes 15 seconds to realize the pig likes it….. and you’re all muddy.
Oh, and his only other defense, Dwight, take $10,000 CASH to an arbitrator and old Harley will belly up to the bar with all the proof you need, prove himself right and take your $10large. This, also, is totally normal. I’ve never known a person in my life who hasn’t thought you should bring them $10K to get the truth OR to have the truth proven.
You know why that works for him? He has no intellectual integrity. And even if you laid down the $10K, he’d have to have it up front so that, before meeting, he could take the cash, go to a surgicenter and have testicles implanted. Otherwise, he has no nerve to ever let anyone know WHO he is. But funny, he wants to OUT Steele and anyone else he disagrees with, while threatening people with a “fedural lawsuet” if they out him.
Fuzzy logic? No, just the ramblings of a sick, maladjusted, sociopathic lunatic.
Harley,if the Bush administration was clearly lying about the Iraq War,why did your fellow liberal Democrats like Packer,Hilary Clinton,John Kerry,and John Edwards all support it ? Why did Bill Clinton’s administration call for regime change in Iraq in 1998(three years before Bush became president),sponsoring the Iraq Liberation Act,which passed in the U.S. Senate,98 to 0 ? If there were no chemical weapons at all in Iraq,the supposedly phony pretext for the war,why did the New York Times run an article(11-6-14) criticizing the Bush administration for exposing our troops to 5,000 chemical weapons uncovered in post war-Iraq,including war heads and canisters filled with the nerve gas known as Sarin ? Finally,if you agree with Packer that ISIS must be destroyed,how do you propose doing it ? (Don’t say expanding job opportunities in the Middle East,like Obama administration spokes-person,Marie Harf !)
Lying hyenas, the whole pack of them. If we packed the whole legislative, judicial and executive branches on a ship never to return I don’t think anyone would miss them.
DUDE?
do you still fantasize about me like hearne said?.
are you fantasizing about me when you wrote this long
coment?.
Are you fantasizing aboutb me like hearne pointed out
when you read my comments?
I know you are…hearne never lies…and even though I
find it very strange….I look at the source.
Maybe someday you’ll find a pic of me….just too weird TO
EVEN THINK ABOUT.
I HOPE TO HEAR A REPLY TO THIS COMMENT!
I was talking about Paul Wilson, as I recall…
Not the dude
Dwight, I thought this was an interesting piece. After a steady diet of “Rich Steele” , this effort makes you look like a rational, moderate republican. Hope you don’t take that as an insult.
Couple of thoughts. First, it should be a given that anyone with strong political beliefs, left or right, will express those opinions through the filter of a partisan prism. Nothing wrong with that as long as they support it with generally accepted facts. Then again, both sides tend to have their own facts. Conspiracy theorists need not apply. A well presented and well supported opinion, regardless of political persuasion is appreciated.
Secondly, anyone who honestly believes that any President or any Congress has the ability to control the actions of foreign governments or “groups” is naive at best. While they can advocate for actions that they believe will result in the best outcome for America, there are way too many moving parts and agendas for that to actually come to fruition. They are educated guesses at best. Congress and the President can’t even control each other, or themselves.
Finally, I had to chuckle at your analysis of the Q & A session. While I have not attended anywhere near as many presentations as you have, I’ve been to many and your description was accurate. Sometimes the questions can last for minutes. The egos of many older, white males are not pleasant to experience.
why did the dems vote for the war…they trusted powell/bush
cheney to tell the truth. Yes…there mustbe some truth
spoken. Unfortunately they were lied to.
Ever been lied to southy…ever been screwed because of
wghat someone told you.
Your arguments about the facts preceding the war have
been lies…after lie…after lie…and the kids laying
in walter reed are the victims of those lies.
You didn’t nswe if you served…I doubt you did..
a rich kid like you has connections and deferments.
10 year war..the longest war ever? and we accomplish
nothing under bush but the caskets coming home that
he never visited as they returned….
you sir are part of the conspiracy.
everything was based on the lies o people like you….
may god relieve you of the sins you committed.
and every time you see a wunded warrier…remember
you and your buddies caused that!!!!!!!
you are horrible…point blank……..
As far as isis…had we never attacked Iraq an focused on the
real 9/11 enemy (which bush /cheney never did…but
Obama did killing bin laden and making what a 5 star general
called the “greatest decision in American military history”
wwe would never have isis.
You sir need to go back to the ivy league libraries you
never visited….you sir never served or contributed to this
cause. You mentioned you family funding all those
charities…but when the nation called…WHO THE FUCK
RAN????????????????????????????????????????????
I always take at face value something a politician tells me,especially if they are from the opposing political party. Give me a break ! The leading Democrats who supported the war trusted in the same intelligence sources the White House did-the CIA,the DIA,the National Geospatial Intelligence Agency,and the foreign powers with whom we shared information. Read Bob Woodward’s description of the final cabinet meeting before the war at Camp David,where Bush asked CIA Chief George Tenet how certain Tenet was of the existence of WMD’s in Iraq,which was the legal basis for the war. Tenet’s response ? “Slam dunk, Mr. President!” What about all the times(17) we went to the UN to enforce the accounting for WMD’s BEFORE Bush became president? I suppose he masterminded that from the front office of the Texas Rangers? The “Cheney tricked us” argument is pathetic because it expects us to believe that some very savvy,experienced pols would accept the assurances of their bitterest political enemies on something as monumental as war and peace.(You’ve still got three questions to answer,H-man!)
ues and lets not forget the forceful visits mr.
cheney made to the war departments…the cia..
the other places he visited and put pressure on them
to agree with what lies he and bush and powell
had pulled together.
Yes…we were told there were wmd’s…and the
real people went to the un to get sancions…and
to put pressue on sadam to break down.
Bjut remember cheney on 60 minutes…and the
worst was the presidential dinner where your
lying pos bush made a joke about looking for
wmd under the table?
You are done southy. You and your parrots
are being surrounded.
Even the heads of the adminsttration said they
lied….what more do you need.
Hillary/reed etc. were going on lies that were given
to them and made up.
And when it came time for you to serve…you ran!!!!!!!
I asked you if you served.
Bush and cheney old enough to serve had
whatb 10 deferments and bush went awol
from Alabama.
We believed in bush and the million govt
employees (250k inthecommerce dept./26000
in the sec department/5000 in hud) that the
economy ws being regulated under bush’s
command and look …we got the worst recession
since the great depression !!!!
War and peace…you know nothing about….
CHENEY…AND RICE and powell HAVE ALL SAID
THERE WERE NO WMD’S…what more do you
need to prove it was one big lie.
And don’t blame anyone slese….because cheney
whipped his buddies in govt. to help conceal the lie
and leadus to war.
Its okay southy….you probably made millions off
the livesand limbs of those 300,000 kids in some
way.
God will judge you someday.
ITS A LIE SOUTHY…READ THE TOP BUSH
OFFICIALS ACCOUNTS…THE SPEECH POWELL
GAVE AT THE UN WAS A LIE…HE ADMITTED
IT….ALL BASED ON LIES.
I gues growing up in a rich family ethics and
honest mean nothing if you make the big bucks.
For the rest of us…who saw the suffering and the
end result…we know god will judge you
on these lies when your passing comes.
Yes…we believed the crap…shame on us…
first time…shame on me…
second time…shame on you….
tell the 5000 families it wasn’t a lie…tell the
wounded warriers it wasn’t a lie…
then ask yourself…why did I sit and do nothing???????
your people caused this and are a direct
reason we still face problems in the region.
And geoege tenet got a special visit from cheney….
then bush asked him….gues cheney must have
been a great salesman…but he was a liar.
a thief (haliburton…stole from the equipment
of the troops) then the secc. of defense when
asked why we were ill equipped to fight this
war in th start..said YOU GO WITH WHAT YOU HAVE!!!!!! Andv put thousands of soldiers at
risk with unprepared vehicles that could not
with stand the IED’s they faced and had to go
thru scrap metal and broken glasses to fortify
the humv’sthat would take the brunt of the
injuries and deaths.
YOU AND YOUR BUDDIES HAVE BLOOD
ON YOUR HAND.
but I hope you have fun playing at top golf!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You remind me of when my kids were little and I’d catch them doing something they shouldn’t have.I was always told; “Johnnie(the neighbor kid)made me do it !” Your version is,”That bad old Cheney talked real mean to the CIA and DOD and made them rewrite those intelligence estimates !” Laurence Silberman,a Democratic U.S.Court of Appeals judge,headed up the post war commission which debunked the whole myth that a cabal of neocons in the Pentagon basement fabricated the basis for the war. Even if what you were saying was true, how do you explain the posture of the Clinton administration ,which consistently treated Saddam Hussein as a serious threat to the U.S. for eight years before W took office ? If there were never any WMD’s,what happened to the 4000 Kurds who died at Halabja ?What happened to the Iranians who were gassed during the Iran /Iraq war ?
As far as serving my country goes, my conscience is clear.However, I don’t feel any need to give the particulars to defend myself against someone who is afraid to use his own name, while defaming everyone who disagrees with him behind a veil of anonymity.
What is it about a public address,book talk,etc. that brings the cranks and bores out in droves ? Having gone to college in the 70’s.I’m no stranger to political theatre. I don’t mind hostile questions,heckling ,cat-calls or anything else as long as people are allowed to speak and not be shouted down. What I can’t stand is someone who hogs the microphone and either gives a speech masquerading as a question or asks a series of rambling,disjointed questions that use up whatever time is available for Q & A. These cretins were out in force last week at UMKC (maybe we can replicate the scene when the H-man speaks at MU j-school next month !) and I for one am embarrassed that the speaker will think this is representative of the level of public discourse in Kansas City. Plus, the questions were shamefully stupid and ignorant. I’d love to hear from somebody else who was there at Pierson Hall last Thursday and witnessed the debacle.
Whether or not the Iraq War was necessary is, to this day, a moot point. There are several points that liberals miss, such as the votes to authorize force that were passed by a Democrats and Republicans in Congress. The term Bush lied is a tad bit offensive under the weight of the lies presently being told, and it would not be the first time that the US entered a War on the back of bogus intelligence, the Spanish American War having been likely fought on the back of a careless sailor smoking near the powder magazine of the Maine on a hot humid night in Havana Harbor. The problem is that the present Administration did not work hard enough to obtain a Status of Forces Agreement, and having pulled the troop out was not reluctant to claim success for ending the War, even if the victory was incomplete. Now, the Administration wants to disavow all responsibility for how they ended the War. Sorry no sale. In Libya, Obama bears sole responsibility, as he failed to even ask Congress, complete with a Democrat controlled Senate, for permission to even allow embassy guards to fire their side arms, another moot point while we await the fulfillment of the promise that the Benghazi perpetrators will be all brought to justice. After a while we begin to lose our suspension of disbelief for all liberals who fail to accept any responsibility for anything that doesn’t go as they either promise or predict, and it gets deeper with every “If you like your policy, you can keep it.” moment. After a while we no longer trust the “Teleprompter and Chief”, a danger in a world where we can now question almost any authority from Biden t the cop on the beat. However, it is still not the first time, and Americans are no longer virgins to the incompetence of our leadership. I can understand why the FBI is so ineffectual in Benghazi, having been without sleep since the Clinton Administration, when the Clinton and the FBI promised not to rest until John Doe #2 was captured. Twenty years without rest would ruin anyone’s average. Did Bush really lie or did he just believe the lies he was told from all sources? There is a difference. So who told Obama we could keep our own policies, or own doctors, and that if the stimulus was passed we’d never see unemployment over 8%? Did he really believe taxes would not go up on families earning less than 250,000 per year? The difference is Bush quoted his sources, Russian Intelligence, Israeli Intelligence, the evidence of chemical weapons used by Hussein on Iran and his own people, even Ambassador Wilson. Whether or not it is the first lie or the third lie, after a while there is no credibility and even less trust. Clinton was a scoundrel, but he was our scoundrel. I can’t say the same for the man who holds the office now.
another fool ….cowboy is full of horse sh*t…..
cowboy…sorry to fill you in…but from 2016 on you will never
see a republican president again.
We’ve seen what the repubs can do…we see what the dems can do…
we’ve seen the trillions the repubs keep offshore which could be
used to fund free health care for everyone…
so hop on your horse cowboy….you and your buddies are going on
a long long ride into extinction.
thanks.
Harley.
Harley,
Why don’t you identify yourself, so that its a fair fight? Dwight puts his identity out there, and you disparage him, attack his family and spout your vile attacks on him…while you remain anonymous. The epitome of cowardice!
Dwight is a great human being; has done many wonderful things for this community; has been extremely charitable and giving…yet you hide behind your anonymity to castigate him????
Let us know who you are, so that we can find out about the man behind the smears! Come on out of the shadows.
You must be new around here…
SIR…THERE IS NO FAIR FIGHT.
the no brainers on kcc have nothing compared to Harley.
I’ve offered to prove everything I have said…but the loud mouths
on here have refused my wager.
If you’re born with wealth as Dwight and hearne were…its easy
to give away money IN THE FAMILYS NAME.
I asked what personally they’ve done in their time and name to
help others.
I HEARD NOTHING.
I built a business…owned 2…hve worked since I was 8….and unfortunately
nothing was given to me to live on.
Those 2 had every advantage given to them.
Look at hearnes resume…his greatest achievement was running a
free paper in a box across town or writing gossip for the star til they
cut him off.
Dwight talked of “his families” contributions…and while
they were I’m sure welcomed…what has he done.
I remain anonymous although many people know me and I know
everything about the writers on the kcc staff.
The two of them never worried about making payroll…never worried
about paying bills…or whenee the next check was coming from
I HAVE.
and while some of the comnentators on kcc have tried to take me
down..i have fought them with the facts and data of truth.
And by the way…lets find out what you’ve done mr vega…and your
real name.
I noticed you did not use your real name.
we call that hypocritical. And the dude…we know who he is.
Harley is a fighter…ad I’ve taken on bigger people than the
ones on here.
As Itold hearne I have the ability to get info on anyone that most
people have no access to. You’d be surprised who is really
behind these phony names and stories that others have written.
I have offered to prove everything I say provided they bring cash to
the table.. because in my world…you either put up or shut up.
You either talk the talk or talk the bullshit…most of these people
talk the bllshit.
anyone got $10,000.
I am trulythe only self made person on this site. The rest had families
give them money…inherited it…stole it….(yes stole it!!!!!_)…and I
have dfended thosein the right and taken on those who were wrong.
Harley is a survivor!!!!! I never give up.
thanks for becoming one of my readers/disciples and followers.
welcome to kcc…
your friend Harley.
also…countless people hve emailed to discuss serious issues including
finances/business and even their personal life. I can be found
at law4life1000@yahoo.com. I appreciate your emails.
You do love to wag that tongue, H Man…
And cloaked in anonymity you pose probing questions then bristle when one of the writers or other commenters don’t dignify you with a response.
With the odd exception, why should we?
KC Confidential is not your personal toy, here to entertain you and respond to your qd nauseam, endlessly long diatribes and questions.
Sorry, wild man.
But even you fail to be accurate. For example, conveniently forgetting that the Star tried to hire me back at 40 to 50 cents on the dollar, almost immediately after I left. McClatchy wouldn’t let them for one year because I took my payout in 2008 instead of 2009.
The rest is history.
Instead of sitting out 2009 like a good little boy and waiting for 2010 to resume the column, I began covering the hijinks at the Star and – as they say- burned my bridge back.
Last time I’ll explain that to you; let’s see how long Mr. Accurate’s memory lasts.
Face Plan # 203;
Remember, Hearne, its you and Stomper who think this piece of Harleyshit actually provides value added in his chaotic ramblings. Sure, everyone loves a car wreck. Everyone loves a crime scene, we all slow down and look. But when you have one every 50 feet, it gets old when you’re trying to get from point A to B; this train wreck only serves to provide a traffic jam for the NEW drivers who aren’t eff’ing sick and tired of the scribbled diarrhea that is… harlet.
As much as I disagree with Dwight and cowboy…they do offer
some lies and facts to back up their arguments.
More than I can say for SHALLOW WILSUN AND SHALLOW HEARNE.
We can disagree…but I don’t shout…I use facts and personal experience.
And as a jew who has seen first hand what isreal expects I can say that
millions of jews are becoming disenchanted with net.
Of course he doesn’t want a deal with Iran. He wants the u.s. to provide
their young kids as canoon fodder for another military intervention.
Guaranteed that Israel knew saddam had no wmd’s…guaranteed!!!!!
Yet they saw a chance to instigate the u.s. into another ground war and
eliminate another of their enemies without any Israeli blood being shed.
Sure they can bomb irans nuclear facilities…but guaranteed iran has
made them almost impossible to get to or they might not even be
close to building one. If you read the recent notes on intelligence…amerrican
computer hackers undid the Iranian nuclear operation via computer.
American hackers know the codes and can turn off the operations.
But Israel is not satisfied and wants America to risk their kids and
national security to take on iran while Israel reaps the rewards without
any risk at all.
Isreael has over 150 nuclear weapons. They have the advantage of
American nuclear missles literally minutes away from anywhere in the
world should they be attacked. Americans still have gound forces or
boots in Iraq/Afghanistan/turkey/Germany that are available at
a moments notice…plus special forces troops in locations ready to be
deployed. I doubt seriously Iran would commit the blunder of using
weapons (if they even have them) on a force that could retaliate and literally
obliterate that entire region.
Again….I am a jew. I love Israel…but I am an American first. We’ve
given enough blood and lives to protect Israel and they have remained
intransigent toward their neighbors and used the u.s. as their protector
at the cost of trillions of dollars and thousands of American lives.
We know that Egypt has nuclear weapons….turkeyindia/and probably
most of the surrounding nations have nuclear capabilities.
For southy and cowboy they cling to the idea that America must police
the world. That’s no longer feasible nor wanted.
We created our own monster in the middle east when we invaded
Iraq….the American politicians and the American public were all lied
to.
Southy and cowboy have probably never been to walter reed…nor worked
with the kids who returned with severe injuries and head trauma.
If they are so sure this war is the right way to go…if they are so sure
that their actions involving armed conflict are so righteous and correct…
THEN I SUGGEST THEY INVEST THEIR OWN SONS AND DAUGHTERS
IN THIS WAR.
SIMPLE SOUTHY…SIGN YOUR KIDS OR GRAND KIDS UP TO GO FIGHT
ANOTHER WAR THAT ENDS IN A SLUGGISH MESS…I’M SURE THE
MARINES WILL TAKE THEM OR WILL THEY GET THE DEFERMENTS
AND INFLUENCE OF DADDY TO KEEP THEM FROM FIGHTING THE
WARS THEIR FATHERS ARE PROMOTING. WAR IS GREAT BUSINESS..
INVEST YOUR SONS AND DAUGHTERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
OR STFU.
I have three members of my family serving in the military currently so spare me the Audie Murphy/John Wayne act. Who are you to demand of me proof of our patriotism and bravery when you don’t even have the guts to reveal your identity on a blog? How have YOU served our country? Why should we believe anything you tell us when you hide behind a pseudonym: with an imaginary religion,an imaginary lawyer, an imaginary set of rich and powerful friends ,and an imaginary business career?
heres the deal..i’ll prove what I’ve said…you put up
“lunch money” of 10,000 dollars…winner takes all…
10k is a lot to me…10k is a dnner for you.
Please take my bet.
I’ll even give ya odds…maybe glaze can do a tease!!!!!!
READ THIS AND WEEP SOUTHY AND COWBOY
Dick Cheney’s lies cost at least 4,488 Americans their lives in Iraq, but Benghazi, where no criminal activity occurred is worse. Over 320,000 Americans suffered brain injuries in Iraq and Afghanistan, but according to Cheney, Benghazi was worse. The epidemic of veterans’ suicides rages on, but Cheney wants us to believe that Benghazi was worse. Dick Cheney can’t travel outside of the United States, because of the backlash he inspires, but Benghazi was worse.
Former Vice President Cheney is trying to unjustly convict President Obama for his own crimes. Dick Cheney lied and millions died. Republicans can scream Benghazi until the end of time, but it will never wash away Dick Cheney’s crimes.
HOW MAY OF YOUR KIDS AND FAMILY ARE YOU WILLING TO DONATE
TO THE WAR THE REPUBS AND NETNUT WANT TO GET AMERICA
INTO?
HOW MANY? SIGN YOUR KIDS UP AT MARINES.COM.
I’m SURE THEY’LL TAKE THEM PROVIDED YOU DON’T GT THEM
DEFERMENTS OR USE YOUR INFLUENCE TO KEEP THEM FROM
FIGHTING THE WARS THEIR DADS/GRANDADS ARE FROTHING
AT THE MOUTH TO SEE START!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Harley, how does it feel to be the most despised commenter on KCC? I personally have never seen you back up any comments with proof of it being a fact other than you saying it’s a fact. Keep up the good work, I do find it comical, but you do need to shorten them up alot. That was a joke, except the part about shortening them up!
+100 – a commenter gets it RIGHT. See, he’s so busy SCREAMING facts that people over look the FACT he never backs up a thing, other than what he gets from some wing nut web site. Its like Dwight using Tea Party News Network as HIS source material. I wouldn’t pay an ounce of attention to him. In this case, I give you… Harley.
mike…your blue collar education and lifestyle
is showing.
take the dog to a damn trainer….your house must
be a mess.
And while at it….take Wilson…he doesn’t do well
on a leash either!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!hahahahahahaha@
obviously you’re either new or stupid. Read my
writings.
If its politics I predicted the exact electoral college
vote and the winner while guys like whinery/Wilson/
predicted a romeny wiin.
Need more info…just read my stories….everything is backed
up with facts.
painful to even see all of those comments from harley, let alone try to read any of them.
Harley… you are beginning to remind me of my 19-month old… Basset Hound, Preston Riley Cooper. He’s of the Euro bloodline and was the runt of the litter, currently weighing in at about 58 lbs., so he’s no “little dog.” Big personality and very tenacious.
Cooper loves attacking throw pillows, shoes… just about anything really, but those in particular. despite being disciplined and admonished countless times since he was 3 months old, Coops absolutely WILL NOT STOP. leave him unattended even for a moment and he will try, often successfully, to run off with something he’s not supposed to have.
in short, Cooper is an impudent little hound. You sir, are an impudent little hound.
mikey…bring your dog by….I am really good at training dogs.
Have had5 german sheperds …love ’em.
you can train a dog…but I can’t trainthe kcc crew.
and I consider myself a big personality and very tenacious.
But mike t….again I ask you to prove anything I’ve said wrong.
You can’t…but you can be trained to read/research/and maybe
addsome intelligent conversation to this blog.
Do some work on that. And if you maybe got on you tube
or a dog site you might learn how to control thatdog of yours.
Your house must be a mess. Instead of chasing me …maybe
train PRESTON RILEY COOPER. BASSETT HOUNDS ARE PRETTY
SMART DOGS….maybe he’s controlling you.
As far as being the most hated writer here…you couldn’t be more wrong.
every day get emails saying how spot on my comments are and how
I am the only one who has the guts to tell the truth.
Seems like you don’t have a very “leadership” type role in the home and
have let preston take over. You need to “man” up and let that dog knows
who pays the bills and owns the home.
Good luck with preston. You need to watch ‘DOG WHISPERER” ON TV
FOR SOME IDEAS.
It will make your hound dog respect you and theitems in your house.
Bud…if you can’t control your dog….what can you do?
thanks for the comment…hope the house is still standing when
preston goes on a real rampage.
For further info and advice call ceasar the dog whisperer at 1=800-dog trainer.
hahahahahahaha!
well, thanks for the reply Harley. couple of quick points:
– i wasn’t saying you were wrong. i leave that to others. i have no room to talk.
– and i didn’t say you were the most hated writer here. that was someone else a comment or two ahead of mine. you may very well be, but who am i to judge?
– Preston goes by Cooper. our house is not a mess and Bassets are well-known for being difficult to train. that said, a YouTube excursion on the topic might not be a bad idea.
– finally, you could do a lot worse than being compared to a Basset Hound. some would take it as a compliment. but for the record, i compared you to Cooper – who is an impudent little hound. i think that aside from not being a canine, you fit the description.
– you don’t know the meaning of no.
– you bark incessantly.
– you talk back.
– you mistake “shoes” and other things that are not yours as toys for your personal enjoyment.
– i believe you have short hair… and short legs.
🙂
Fuuuuuuuuuuck. Now we add “dog trainer” to his list of expertise……. I can’t take this any more.
HARLEY OWNS WILSUN….
what a faceplant by Wilson.
Maybe wislon needs some instruction by
CAESAR THE DOG WHISPERER!!!!
at least my dogs never tore up the house!!!!!
hahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
you kill me Wilson…..you are a riot…
maybe go onstage at glazes….I’d pay $1.25
to hear your stories.
Harley,
Last I looked, the military is VOLUNTARY…no one is being “forced” to sign up. And, despite your protestations to the contrary, I think it is very well understood that those that have signed up are chomping at the bit to take it to the jihadists…and to protect your miserable rear end from their goal of killing you and everyone else in this country.
And, while you are contemplating this, contemplate also that the “old, white guys” (along with many of color) were the ones that served honorably in WWII and in Vietnam, often volunteering. It was the left that ran from service, to Canada. While your political views disturb me, it is your unchecked rudeness and your complete lack of civility that is most disgusting.
vinny…..strictly politics….
the old conservative worn out style is worn out…a new change
and what I call a tsunami is coming.
as far as running from service….lets see DICK CHENEY…GEORGE W.
BUSH…..AND EVERY OTHER REPUBLICAN WHO’SE DADDY COULD
GET THEM AN DEFERMENT OR USE THEIR INFLUENCE TO GET
THEM OUT OF SERVING.
I’m all for the servicemen who served and died. My work in this area
has been featured on every network news show….on the front of
USA today…on majorv networks across the nation…by thousands
of americans who sent me cards/letters…by hundreds of meembers
of every service……..by hundres of papers including the kc star to the
Orlando daily newspaper…
Harley is the biggest supporter ofvets here…make no mistake about that.
But vinny…the world is changing and with it is coming the tsunami of
newvideas and new voters who will run the nation quite different than
we’ve seen ever.
I disagree that those who sign up want to finght the jihadists….because the
truth is that we really don’t know who the jihadists are…are
they iraqui? Iranian? moslem? black? white? Syrian? Saudi?
Hispanic? Jordanian….and now they’re coming from Europe and the
u.s.?
who are we fighting vinny? Me and everyone else is confused.
and netnuts made it even worse with his speech.
NETNUTS: 1990: iRAN WILL HAVE NUCLEAR WEAPONS IN 3 YEARS
1992: ” ” ” ” ” ” ” ”
1994 ” ” ” ” ” ” ” ”
speech sounded like Barry Goldwater’s cold war speech…………
and we know what a winner that dude was!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
sounded like Reagan……………another winner!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
where do these people come from?
And did net nuts ever make one single note of condolence to the thousands
americans killed defending Israel ….>NO….
truth is without us money/equipment/war material/intelligence/ troops
to fight Israels wars….Israel would be gone.
WE’RE TIRED OF FIGHTING THEIR WARS…IF THEY WANT TO ATTACK
IRAN GO AHEAD…NO U.S. TROOPS!
if they can’t find a way to live in peace ince what 1946….we’re tired of
americans dying and paying for their intransigence to any type of
peace….except for rabin.
now vinny…if you want to talk real world….its your stage!!!!!!!!!!!!
would be
MINCHES…
I have literally written a book here based on true facts about this subject.
Some of you have read it…some of you haven’t.
Only one person has returned with some facts (which have been proven
wrong by the actual people wholed us into the Iraq war….powell/
cheney etc)…
so if you have something intelligent to say bring it on. Wislon has nothing
but following me around and his 2 sentence rebuttals are merely reflection of
his lack of knowledge about any subject (except getting stuck in a suv under
the glove compartment hunting the jewl theif. Funniest story ever.
Plus (according to hearnes actual words) WISLON STAY UP AT NIGHT
FANTASIZING ABOUT ME….YES FANTASIZING ABOUT HARLEY!!!!!!!!!!!
Im no doctor but ya gotta either laugh on the floor so hard when he said
that or just bescared to death…..zTHE FUNNIEST WORDS EVER WRITTEN
ON KCC……
and I will go find those and repeat them.
I got over 20 emails from people laughing about that comment!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
As I have said…this is fun and entertainment…not for someones sick obsession!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
where’s the e’fn rube guy? seems that would be an appropriate response to the ‘haraids’.
no sir…nobody can reply nor compare to Harley….I GARANTEE IT….
like the mens wearhouse guy said!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
good luck to you all!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You’re an f’n rube. How’s that.
As someone who probably would agree with a lot of what Harley apparently is saying, I just can’t read any of it. He clearly has strong opinions and a strong inclination to express them in this forum, but evidently, he can’t be bothered to make a little effort at communicating them effectively. The only conclusion to draw is that he likes the persona of a crackpot blathering on from his soapbox in Bughouse Square. Would it be too much to ask for complete sentences, grammar, punctuation? Let along conciseness? Well it is the Internet, so I guess that’s too much to expect. So I wish him no ill will, and I admire his apparent willingness to push back against the racists and the dishonest and delusional blowhards who troll these waters, but I have to scroll by to the next item.