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With the coming opening of Hollywood Casino at Kansas Speedway next to Legends, what are we to think?
Will this be the perfect storm? A Casino that actually brings people to shop and be entertained in the surrounding area? The ones that opened in the early 90’s in Missouri did the exact opposite.
The casinos that opened here in the middle of nowhere took a toll on our entertainment districts, Westport and the Plaza. You don’t hear much about that anymore, but it’s true. The advent of the urban, hip-hop, rap generation movement added to that decline, but it all started with Kansas City’s love affair with gambling 20 years ago.
Maybe you’ve forgotten, but had to BUY a ticket to get on the BOATS. Then you had SHIFTS and had to leave, or buy another pass to get back on. One casino had two boats. Which one should you get on?
It was wild, it was exciting and it nearly destroyed our local restaurants and bars for five years.
The casino’s even offered AFTER HOURS COCKTAILS.
For a time they served until 5 AM. All of that nonsense ended by 1997. In fact today you don’t need a card to get on and there are no limits – it’s VEGAS STYLE gaming today. Yet after 20 years the attendance is way, way down at Kansas City’s Casinos.
Remember when the Star used to print those pie charts showing which casino was doing the most biz?
A poor economy combined with the "it ain’t new anymore" took a toll. One major casino – Sam’s Town – went bust. A couple others have sold and had name changes. There are no "boats" anymore and you don’t have to be by the water.
Kinda like weed. Before long it will be legal and what will they tell all those 50-60 year olds who did prison time for having a bag of pot in the car back in the 60s, 70s or 80s? That the government really cares about you, your health and welfare? Uh, not really – they never did. It’s a BUSINESS.
The Hollywood Casino, due to open February 3rd, may be a horse of a different color.
First off it’s one of the few casinos located by a large shopping area with a decent population nearby.
Unlike most others in the middle of nowhere. It reminds me of the one in Hollywood Florida by the Hard Rock or in it actually. It does very well – lots of tourists and traffic – and the mall next door does well too.
And this may be the case here.
The depression, I’m sorry recession, stopped several big companies including Red Development, who owns or did own most of Legends, from wanting a casino. Remember the bidding wars on this puppy in 2006 and 2007?
They ended up with one buyer. Also the Hollywood casino is next to several EVENT stadiums and that will help. It may actually bring people out to Legends to eat, shop and have early entertainment like at our comedy club. Dinner, a show and gambling – all in a close area. It makes sense.
The bloom is off the rose for seeing yet another Vegas style casino, but people that live out this way were kinda far from Harrah’s and the other casinos, so this might bring more locals out more often.
This place could hit the JACKPOT!
It could be really busy and help the city of KCK and add to the attendance at Legends. They have no showroom or hotel yet and who knows if they ever will? They will have a few restaurants, but most likely most people will eat at the more stable restaurants nearby.
Time will tell.
But you have to hand it to KCK, Village West and Legends for becoming a centerpiece of Kansas City entertainment. They offer it all now, family, teenage and adult entertainment. A one stop shop.
Could be a real boon for the area.
Yes Add Sports Betting
Hey Glaze if they had a sports book, it would kill. I think at some point that too will happen. Why can you lose money on a slot machine but not bet NFL? Doesn’t make sense.
Destination
Love how you pull stats out of your ass. None the less the Legends is becoming more and more of a destination. Hell locals could stay over nite and have plenty to do if planned right. Add a few races and this place will have staying power. Doesn’t ISC, the owner of NASCAR own this place or have some level of involvement? They don’t fail. Which lame casino goes under in KC.
Gambling Man is right they need a sports book. Is there a federal law that only NV can have it?
They also need to figure out how to get upscale, sexy, good looking and hip to gamble. The casinos in MO seem to have a significant quanity of the Walmart regulars pissing away their rent and food money.
Ciao
One thing could derail the whole thing
US Justice Department recently OK’d online gaming. It was only for state lottery purposes but they cracked the door open. Other wise I agree with this really helping the Legends.
If the Speedway opens the track to more racing it will be a killer area.
Having the Speedway dependent on NASCAR only is foolish. NASCAR’s revenues had declined dramatically starting before the financial meltdown. They got into the casino to grow their business. Risky.
But there is a road race course and a dirt track venue to replace Lakeside. Maybe KCI will relocate?
NeoWyco is perhaps the place to be.
Thank the good Rev and Rep Cleaver for that gift.
gambling market is down
harrahs is down…and with the new hollywood casino look for the money to be split up even more.
All the casinos are cutting costs to get ready for hollywood. Now at harrahs they have a lady come by
with an ipad and takes your drink order. Then sends it to bar and then a waitress comes out and
brings your drink. The girls are making less money but the house is more efficient.
Hollywood wil be a huge draw. It will capture the johnson county market and the wyandotte market.
the others willsplit up the rest of the pie. But with all the events/happenings at legends its going to
be a huge success but it only splits up whats left of the gambling pie.
What most studies show is that people don’t frequent the areas around these types of casinos.
They go in and out of the casinos and the money fails to spread to the adjoining businesses.
People walk in like sheep to give their cash to the casinos then are flat busted with no more
money to spend anywhere else.
Noone can predict what this one will do but in a down market it shoudl be able to steal some business.
And with harrahs and the other casinos failing to take care of their good whales…it opens up a huge
opportunity for hollywood to steal the big gamblers right out from under the other casinos.
Even diamonds at harrahs are complaining about what they get there. Harrahs..once a strong player
in the market is taking some deep hits. the management has failed to take care of the customers…
so in the end..theres only so much money that casinos can take and now they will split up the small pie
thats left.
OMG, another great harley posting!!
I’m only weighing in here to hear my jaws rattle I guess. Let me start by saying, Im not a gambler. I dated a girl who was the sister lin law to the President of the Casino Queen in St Louis. I did some interactive media promotion work for them, thats how I met her and got connected at a personal level. Im not aiming this at sports betting, like what Glaze or some of you do and I’m not judging in general, but man, what a demographic it looked like whenever I was there. It was actually very, very sad. Grandma in her wheelchair, cig hung out the side of her mouth, oxygen tank strapped to be back, bleeding off her SS check, or so it seemed.
Im on the Board of Directors for the Greater Kansas City Hotel and Lodging Association. Two months ago our Board meeting was at one of the local casinos. Now, bear in mind, I’ve been to “the boats” one time prior to this, with a friend, for BBQ, that’s my entire knowledge base. So, Im there early for the meeting, walk down to where you “board”, I guess, for a lack of a better word, and again, equally sad. This is lunch time. There were some blue collar uniformed kind of people, lots of trucks from “trades” in the lot. Utilities, construction, plumbers, etc. Dont know if it was a fun lunch break, or not. Other than that, it was skewed really old.
I dont know what upscale gambling means. Its not my area, but if what I saw up there was typical, and I can imagine it is, then what my personal lord, savior and mentor Don Imus says about the lottery must be correct, a tax on stupid people.
Not being in that world, is it any different any where else? Im not anti, I just figured they didnt build all those big buildings in Vegas by giving away all that money! And, Craig, who was the President of the Casino Queen told me, the dirty little secret of the business IS…. if our customers left with their winnings… at ANY level, we couldn’t make it. You take $100, win $100, walk out the door leaving $200 behind. He said it really was that close – if you just took the winnings…. and LEFT, they wouldnt make it.
Other than that, I couldn’t be LESS knowledgable about this. I just know I did 10-15 tradeshows a year in Vegas and hated it!
Paul RE: Atlantic City
I worked there when the first casino opened. Trash was up to peoples knees, the poor folks whose job it was to keep the floor clean were having little, old ladies trying to keep them away with a stab from their cigs. Walk across Atlantic Avenue and you were in Beriut.
Never much of a gambler, pools maybe play the craps once in a blue moon. Was the guy the place hated, if I hit for a nice amount I went home.
Vegas is a special venue. In the middle of nowhere, no one around. AC had 80% of the population within a 10-hr drive of the casino. Buses day and night, mostly old folks who got their $10 back and a voucher for the buffer. Spent the day walking along the ocean. No comps, cheapest table was $25 (1977). They made money which they seemed to give to grifters like Trump.
There is one in Chester, PA which actually cleaned up part of the city. But the rest is a third world country, suburb of Philadelphia.
I do know the casinos will ply you with alcohol so you will gamble beyond any reason. Saw Leonard Tose lose the Eagles because he gambled heavily when drinking heavily.
Creepy seeing government involved with gambling, adult business (does Jackson County still own the place on Truman Rd?) and alcohol (states which own and distribute liquor).
Orphan, I did AC too!!
I ran trade shows and marketing for a major telecom mfg in the 80’s/90’s. Funny you said Beriut. My first trip to AC, I got in a day early, checked in, changed into shorts, tee shirt and running shoes and was going to head down the boardwalk. I stopped by the concierge to ask about tickets for a show and to have some cigars brought in from where ever she could find them. After that, she said “Uhhh… where you headed?” to which I replied I was going out for a run/walk and sight seeing. She made it REAL clear to not go ONE BLOCK off the boardwalk, so I understand what your were saying.
Im ok if everyone in this town wants to go participate, its just never been my deal. If I was going to lose $500 bucks this Friday night, I’d rather it be dropped off at Capital Gril or Trio and some to local musicians! I could go home that night… feeling like I REALLY had a good time. The other would leave me… a little empty.
Harley—-Whales??
Not being a smartass, but are you talking about guys flyin in on their own planes, like “Casino” and other movies in that genre?
Or, is it a local whale, who becasue he/she spends more cash than the rest of the hoi polloi is considered, here, in this market, a ‘whale’?
Who are some local whales?
How did Harrahs lose these customers?
In the year 2121
The Legends will look like Bannister Mall today. The whole development has more smoke and mirrors than a Thai whore-house. KCK is BROKE, paying last years bills with next years money. The only way KCK survives is if Wyco and Joco merge governments. Boeing is leaving Wichita. Kansas is fucked!
50% of the people at the local casinos are uneducated poor white trash. 30% are people of color with the same DNA and maybe 20% are affluent 6-Figure types out blowing off a little steam and cash.
Nothing to be proud of here.
I know none of you have ever been to a casino, made a bet, played a slot machine, been to a NASCAR race or even been to a comedy club, so let me tell you how this all works. It is all intertwined, there is a senergy that binds it together, if you can get all the parts…… ah, on second thought….. never mind….. there is not way you could possibly understand, you are just not as smart as I am, so just leave this all to me. It does not concern you, so good day sir.
I SAID GOOD DAY SIR!!
smartman. Id buy your 50/30% as stated..
…but you really think 20% would fall into that category? Affluent locals blowing off some steam and cash?
Again, I don’t want to come across as a casino snob, its just not my deal, but I really dont KNOW people heading there for a weekend of fun and WINNING!!
Now, before Window Glazer hit a wall in his post, I woud say he’s right that theres a direct tie to NASCAR, Monster trucks, etc. I wouldn’t put comedy clubs in that, I would think that just skews younger, but I may be wrong. Craig could fill us in on what his demo is….
@paul
I got the info from a friend that used to do some pr and marketing work for Harrah’s. The 20% may not be “pure” locals. In the case of KC most drive in from a 50-100 mile radius and spend the weekend at one of the local casino/hotels. They are not hard core gamblers. They could just as easily go to Chicago for shopping, Miami for sun, NY for theater or LA to be a foodie for the weekend. 30,000 foot description is they are couples, 35-50 who probably take 6-8 weekend trips a year with a budget of $1000.00 per trip.
For whatever it’s worth the “hotties” they show in the casino ads on TV are nowhere to be found rolling the dice or shaking their money makers in an Isaac Mizrahi mini-dress on the dance floor.
Casinos are just Golden Corral’s with slot machines.
The Legends Way Overblown
There is nothing to consistantly do at the Legends. The casino will do great, in the start up phase, however, like typical midwestern people we will quit going due to a variety of reasons, too far to drive, etc…Remember The Woodlands? The main reason is no population out there and the casinos do not offer a Las Vegas experience.
No great concerts, boxing or MMA events. The entertainment tends to be has-been singers and performers. There’s no Vegas action or vibe. Of course Glaze thinks this area is great, he has a vested interest. with his club. One thing he is, a self-promoter.
yes..there are some huge whales/gamblers in kc
whales are large gamblers. In kc they could be one who spend $10,000 a month or $100,000 a month.
I’ve seen tax paperwork that shows gamblers winning upwards of $600,000 plus per year from local
casinos. I knew one video poker player who had paper winnings of $750,000 in kc. We never could
figure out what he lost but that was the winnings so i’m assuming he lost more than he won.
There are large players in kc. and not just at the legitimate casinos. Card games at a local
apartment complex over a weekend will see the transfer of 50-60k or more.
Yes vegas has huge gamblers. I saw a major chain in vegas and brought in a
crane to hoist a baccarrat (sp) table up to ar suite for a private game. At Mandalay, they have
large numbers of asian gamblers (not as many as wynn properties) who fly in for pai gowe
games that run well into 6 and 7 figures.
and yes…there are some huge players in kc. One doctor in kc owed 750,000 to ceasars and
the hotel had two of their “customer relations” directors fly back to kc to get the dr. to
get a loan on the practice.
There are big big players in kc. Of course there are many more in vegas or in the asian
gambling markets. In fact…one study showed that Kansas City at one time ranked as the
third largest market in u.s. for players going to vegas.
Kansas City has always had a big gambling market but now its gotten older and the
smaller players have taken over. Still lots of money lost at the tables.
who are they…you probably know many of them…they keep quiet and win big and lose big.
One major player owned a sports team and one trip to lv. lost 1.4 million.
Big gambling town. To get a 5 diamond rating at local harrahs I think you have to spend
$250,000 a year in the casino…whatever the top diamond is…so there are some big big gamblers
in kc. Problem is tht the casions didn’t take care of the customers. I heard from an employee
at a casino that all the large rollers left and were looking for a place that would trake care of them.
Local gamblers can geet comped rooms in vegas and spend most of their money locally.
Its a huge huge biz…and they don’t build those big buildings without knowing they will win.
A relative told me that the house will win one more hand than the player and thats how they
make so much.
smartman…there are some hotties there
go there on a friday or saturdya night by the craps tables. Lots of gold diggers looking for a
free hand. there are some gorgeous women there…you’d be suprised. I used to go to harrahs
but learned its just one big losing adventure all the way around.
smartman nailed it with his comment about Golden Corral…
Casinos siphon otherwise productive money out of the economy while offloading social problems on the community. This kind of thing has never been about improving the local economy anyway — it’s about developers getting loans and tax breaks and then moving the risk off their books while taking a payday. I’m sure the people of Kansas will be left holding the bag on this one: http://www.bizjournals.com/kansascity/news/2011/11/14/legends-outlets-kansas-city-defaults.html
KC should focus more on organic growth that comes from having a good business environment: low taxes, quality infrastructure, transparent and reasonable regulatory environment, low crime.
Did you notice….
… That the same people who believe and promote the myth that folks can make money betting on the NFL are the same people who believe and support the myth that casinos are good for the community and people should go there a lot.
The day this country stopped promoting creating things/making tangible goods and started looking for a quick buck, was the day we started the road upon which we are currently on… notice how easy the down hill road is, it does not take too much effort. The road to ruin, the U.S.A. is on it.
Yeah, gambling is a great idea…. NOT!
I gotta go with EXPAT
He is probably dead on.
Paul is right too.
Those Casinos are depressing. Huge downer.
I do like to bet the NFL. 20 or 30 bucks here and there.
No big deal, makes things more interesting.
I sure as hell don’t go to a Casino to do it, but I might if there was a sports book.
Just sayin…
Sorry
I should have said I don’t go to a casino to gamble, but I might if there was a sports book.
Duh…..
Maybe history doesn’t repeat itself but it certainly rhymes
Local conditions may vary, check your situation…
When the casinos came into Atlantic City there were jobs and new construction. A rebirth of the city? Not so much, the casinos took in the money and taxes were set aside to help rebuild the city. What happened was money from this fund was diverted to new casinos rather than to rebuild the infrastructure or rebuild neighborhoods which had fallen on hard times. Trump went bankrupt more times than Craig blows a gasket on hater’s replies.
Today Atlantic City is still a third-world country when you venture one-block off the Boardwalk.
Chester, PA (outside of Philadelphia) built a soccer stadium and a casino. They also have a state prison and a trash-to-steam plant. Five blocks from the casino it is territory which makes the East Side of KC look like Mission Hills.
The Legends has a better surrounding area but the business model is still based on giving hand-outs to those who have deep pockets. Stanford’s is one of the few locally owned & operated businesses in the area. The difference in Legends and Zona Rosa and P&L District is Legends will have a casino as an anchor. Will the casino help or hurt the area? Time will tell but if you examine how casino towns/areas have progressed be aware they are killers for all things local.
The tax relief has been great but there has been no development by new businesses around the casinos. Island of prosperity surrounded by nothing.
The revenues will be split five-ways now, KCK will not suddenly need a new airport for people flying in on their private jets. They may need more bus service.
The opportunity exists for Legends to grow. What will happen?
As the sensei says, we shall see.
the hollywood will have a huge impact
when they have nascar…when the people go to soccer games…and it will open up a new
market for gambling in the area. People who may not have driven to harrahs/argosy etc.
might be close enough to drive to hollywood. I’m sure they did a market study to see
what they could generate before they spent all the money. But i saw on the website where
all the machines will be owned by kansas lottery. Has anyone seen that or understand it.
I will create another 1000 jobs…will generate revenue thats badly needed in kansas…
and hopefully will pay its bills. Cerner is putting thousands of employees down there
and i imagine that could make for some big revenue.
I do hope it works out. Taxpayers are fronting the bill so hopefully it will prove more
successful than the other projects we’ve seen.
But i heart nebraska and cabellas aren’t pay ing their taxes for some reason..maybe the
property tax…has anyone heard this also?
can you spell dichotomy, children?
Missouri casinos had been expected to produce about $372 million for theState education budget this year. Thats likely going to come in closer to $340, given the downturn in the economy and the trickle down it has for casinos.
Go back up top and read all the comments about the business, the damage it does, the demographic it serves.
Look at Smartman’s percentage breakout.
Then understand the boats get to be here, largely, because of a promise to send part of those profits to the State’s Education budget.
In the words of the Old Spice guy…. Look at the CASINO, now look at the KCMO School District, now look at the CASINO, now look back at the KCMO School District. Its a dichotomy that we allowed boats in moats in exchange for the promise of casinos heaping money into the Education budget. But look closely at whats what the shool district is producing with those funds.
Next year’s casino customer.
The State fell victim to the same temptations as the casino/lottery customer = the possibility of EASY MONEY!! Come on in, everyones a WINNER.
It proves money isn’t always the answer, at least not to a good education.
It’s for the children
You make excellent points Paul. It extends beyond casino revenues siphoned for things other than what was promised.
The same smoke & mirrors exist with the forfeiture programs for drugs. The money and property is required by law to be turned over to the Dept. of Education for schools. Instead the cops call in the feds and then the feds return money required by law to go to the schools to be handed back to the police. All nice & tidy and legal. But definitely not what was promised by the state. Not just here but across the nation.
When we wonder why those east of Troost think gaming the system and cheating and stealing are the answer to getting ahead. The “leaders” show them only punks follow the rules & laws.
oh, orphan, please don’t get me started!!
Know why it’s hard for these entertainment districts?
Part of it is the economy, but a larger part is that it’s a pain in the ass for most of the city’s population to drive there, have a good time and then drive home. Everyone is afraid of DUI’s now. Until Kansas City can come up with some sort of better public transit to get around this massive pile of suburbia that makes up the metro area, these entertainment districts will struggle. Get me a light rail system that gets me from the northland to P&L, Zona Rosa, or even The Legends, and I’d be more likely to frequent those areas. A casino isn’t going to get me to drive a half hour or more from the Liberty area over to B.F.E. Kansas. Screw that. If I really want to go to a casino, Ameristar and Harrah’s are much closer. But then you still have the problem of driving home after a night of partying and having a good time. Bottom line is that people are playing it safe and staying local, close to home.
Paul
I saw the mayor of Philadelphia order the police to drop a C4 bomb on a nouse in a West Philadelphia neighborhood which had a 100# propane tank on a “tower” built on the house.. It burned the neighborhood, 85 homes, to the ground. The Fire Commissioner said it was too dangerous to fight the fire and as women and children tried to flee the police shot at them, forcing them back into the fire. Only one woman and one child survived, 11 others died in the fire. The mayor claimed he didn’t know there was a fire, claimed he thought it was “snow” on the TV.
He was overwhelmingly reelected as mayor and then spent over $100-million rebuilding the 85 homes, which were valued at $10 to 20,000 before the destruction.
Just this year after spending almost $200,000 on the 85 homes, the area was razed because the homes were never habitable.
Clay Chastain once came over to me after a set at The Cup & Saucer and fawned over my performance. I had no idea who this guy was but the ladies with me quickly told me who he was.
Do you think he liked me because I sang The City of New Orleans?
Orphan, I can explain a lot of things…..
..but I cant explain CLAY! 980 KMBZ plays an audio clip of him from time to time of one of the last light rail boondoggles he spoke at. Its the one where he’s talking about a city that has no “future for his DAUUUUUGGGHTERS” where he sounds like he missed his original calling of TV evangelist!
Guy Who Says, I would agree on some of your points. I used to take the St Louis light rail from the airport into the city a lot. Its spotless clean, very well run, but usually not exactly packed! Then, I got to looking at “The Jo” or Kansas City’s bus system. Each one lumbering down the street is empty or has 2-5 people on it. I didnt know, on that basis, how LTR would pay out, but St Louis released a study that said their “capital-intensive” LRT ends up costing approximately 16% less per passenger mile than the agency’s supposedly “cheap” bus system. (lightrailnow.org)
If someone with credibility could tackle LTR in KC, it might go somewhere. But Clay has 9 strikes against him, and when they show each new plan, you wonder if weed wasnt involved in the planning session. Why would you go to all that trouble only to show initial routes from KCI… to the ZOO? I can’t remember the last time I flew in to a town, got my bags and said, Im going to catch the light rail and head for the ZOO!!
Paul, you’re right on.
Chastain is the worst thing to happen to the light rail initiative here in KC. He’s a complete buffoon and people turn off to the light rail idea as soon as he opens his yap. In order for light rail to work, it’s going to have to have to major routes to start off with, both weaving thru the Plaza, Westport, and P&L. The north/south line is going to have to run from KCI all the way down to around 151st St in Kansas. The East/West line is going to have to run from probably Adams Dairy Parkway all the way out west of Village West/Legends. Union station could be a major hub for this. KC has major potential for light rail if we just had some forward thinking leadership.
Craig is going to kick our collective asses
for turning his Hollywood story into Light Rail, but youre right and youre right on the routes.
If I could walk OR drive from my palatial estate in Olathe, Kansas’ version of Raytown, to a commuter lot, get on the LTR and end up on the Plaza, connecting to P&L or Legends, I would be all OVER that. I wouldn’t drive down there again, ever. But, Im biased, Im a train guy. I’ve been all over the world, but one of my favorite trips was going to Santa Fe and Taos on AMTRAK from here. I’d rather use light rail in ANY city and avoid getting limo or renting a car.
Raja that! Beena to the rescue
Maybe as part of her rehab program she can work on light rails.
Fixed rails
The problem with fixed rails is they are unable to adjust to population or business moves. The trains and trolleys in Philadelphia no longer go where the people need to go.
I used them all the time, when possible. But I lived two blocks from a trolley stop and seven-miles from work. To use public transportation to get to my employment I had to go into Philadelphia and then back out to the suburbs. Took two-hours. When we went to the Spectrum or the Vet for a night event you had to watch the clock as the trains and trolleys stopped at midnight.
The cleaning people at our facility spent three or more hours getting to work. At night the last bus left at 9pm.
When I worked at Shook, Hardy & Bacon I would have loved to take the bus and avoid the $80/month parking bill. But it was 12-miles from my home in Lenexa to the nearest bus stop. It was only 13-miles to work.
The devil in public transportation is in the details.
I love public transportation but I’m pretty sure the “leadrs” here would f-up a crowbar in a cornfield.
“”Remember when Metcalf South opened, it was “the end ot world” nobody lived south of 103rd street, look now. “”
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Bad example.
I havent been to M.S. for a while but I hear it is a dead zone.
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As far light rail??? It makes waaaaaay too much sense to ever happen.in this stupid town.We are destined to be screwd by sudivisions…. 2 states…. 3 counties…. 23 cities…. 800 seperate taxe bases… and the idiots from Misery hating Kansas so much that they drink all day and do drugs all night just to ignore Kansas…
If we could move that state line 50 miles to the east…. it would solve all of our problems…for the school distict issues to the having one GREAT colllege basketball team everyone can love. KU
Raja THAT, Smartman?
I’m sure you wrote that while singing the lyrics to that great Queen classic:
Another one under the BUS,
Another one under the BUS, HEY HEY!
There are more word games in your sublect line and this post than Hearne trying to explain what REALLY happened to Dave Stephens check!!
Some times I bring a smile to my OWN face….
Raja THAT, back to you.
This is Able, Dog Charlie, OUT!
PS – smartman
You’re sneaky, but I know what you’re up to. You just knew a post couldn’t get 40 comments unless included the word “JARDINES” somewhere, didnt you?
Very interesting guys, I am learning a lot.
Orphan, Paul and Guy Who….., thanks. (smartman’s Beena joke killed me….:) )
Public transportation sounds great and I don’t wanna be negative all the time, but it can be dangerous.
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2011-08-16/news/ct-met-gary-assault-0816-20110816_1_train-woman-gary
http://www.katu.com/news/local/Police-TriMet-seek-attackers-seen-in-MAX-assault-video-137097023.html?tab=video&c=y
http://www.citizentube.com/2010/02/public-transportation-fight-videos-case.html
and you better have you Civil Rights Lawyers sharpening their pencils.
http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/2011/0317/Feds-to-investigate-civil-rights-claims-against-L.A.-bus-authority.
It all looks good on paper.
chuck
The week before I started college there was a student killed at one of the stops. Think that didn’t get this hick’s attention. Then my first day of school, coming home on the El the entire flock of Black Muslims were going car to car asking for donations.
Maybe 200 kids waiting for the subway to go to school when a fight broke out. A cop let his dog loose and it ran past the fight and tore up another cop.
Kawasaki had a contract to build new cars for the Broad Street line. On the day they were to test on the tracks the train pulled up to the platform. Unfortunately only the top 1/3 of the car was above the platform. Couple of weeks later they rolled again for the dog-and-pony show. This time the “scholars” had spray painted the plastic seats. Mr Businessman gets on, sees everyone standing and gives us a look like we were stupid. Wet paint doesn’t help the appearance of a Brooks Brother’s suit.
Then there was the kid who smiled at me and stepped off the platform in front of the on coming train.
But the most fearful and frightening times were when my commute intersected with the Catholic school being dismissed and the students boarding the trolley. I’ve had guns pointed at my head but this was more terrifying. Hormone-laden teens set loose from the rigors of religious education to vent their many frustrations.
Yeah public transportation can be dangerous.
Back in the 60s were were almost arrested on a bus here for sitting in the back…
Something a lot less ambitious than a full hub & spoke light/commuter rail system could be successful in KC. There are old trolley right-of-ways running through Kansas City that have been covered up by parks and buildings but are still largely traceable: use a little creative urban planning to bring those back first with a route or two between River Market and Waldo, using small trams/trolleys (like the ones in Portland, Hong Kong, Melbourne, etc.) and go from there. Putting in a whole commuter rail spoke/hub system (that goes directly from Orphan’s house in Lenexa to his workplace) is too big and complex a project for a fractured KC political body to complete and wouldn’t pay for itself. Keep the tracks where the people and attractions are and it’s a different story.
good point chuck
What I should have said is: Something a lot less ambitious than a full hub & spoke light/commuter rail system could be successful in KC if “civil rights lawyers” don’t sink their teeth into it first.
As for crime on trains, just don’t go where the problem demographic is. KC already has Flash Mobs and Polar Bear Hunting even without public transportation.
@ expat
Don’t forget “Knockout King”.
This is just yesterday in St. Louis.
Knockout King
http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/metro/knockout-game-victim-enraged-that-young-suspects-walked-free/article_6dc55245-69ec-51a0-8f5c-5bbb95777a9d.html
St. Louis is listed as the most dangerous city in the US, ahead of Detroit.
I don’t know about infecting the rest of the city with a little TOO much diverstiy.
You could get killed for just walking down the street now in Kansas City.
Does the rest of the Metro area, wanna have to think about violence when they go to the grocery store??
Not being a smartass, just sayin…
no, i get it, chuck
I don’t know what’s happened to STL. At the same time, we can’t blame it on ltr, but you raise a good point.
St. Louis light rail
Having family in StL, I can tell you that the metro (or the B and E express as they sall it, B and E staning for breaking and entering) is clean, well run and prompt. Yes, it opens the world up to the undesriables but I think that stems from St. Louis running it on the “honor” system. No one there to check your ticket and not much of a penalty for not having one. As soon as they enforce it, the trouble goes down. The knock out “game” is very disturbing but that can (and probably will) happen here. There used to be a ride free zone from Union Station to the Landing but they did away with that. Yes, certain parts of St. Louis are very dangerous, but I don’t know why you would ever go to that part of town. I’ve NEVER felt unsafe in StL. Whenever I’d take in a Cardinals game, I’d get on it in the burbs and it’s a 35 minute ride downtown, deposited right in front of the stadium. $2. Cheap.
Way off track
getting a little off track, aren’t we?