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Forget who won or lost yesterday’s on-air tete a tete between 610 Sports host Nick Wright & sports media blogger Greg Hall…
The inside baseball nature of the confrontation probably left most listeners wondering what to make of it. That said, readers of KC Confidential were likely all-too familiar with the subject given most of Hall’s coverage of Wright went down right here over the past two years.
So, against my better judgment, let’s take a look.
Frankly, I’m not really sure who "won."
Hall wisely pimped Wright into bringing him in studio rather than calling on the telephone where it would be easier for Wright to steamroll him. And to a large extent, Hall’s strategy worked. Listeners who contacted me – ages 30 to 60 – felt Hall came out on top. But not by a landslide.
A closer listen while transcribing the confrontation, showed that Wright had the better arguments, but got distracted and wasn’t able to hammer home his points as well as he might have.
Example…
Wright started by nailing Hall for calling him a coward and accusing him of plagiarism. Which clearly Hall had done in the past week.
But Wright allowed Hall to wriggle free by claiming that he never used those exact words.
True enough, but to borrow a line from former KCTV investigative reporter Dave Helling, here’s the "Truth Watch."
Example:
Hall to Wright: "I didn’t call you a coward and I never accused you of plagiarism. So there’s two strikes right there. I have never used any of those words with Nick Wright."
True, but disingenuous. Here are the exact words Hall tweeted to Wright:
"You sound a bit gutless, Nick…What R U afraid of?"
That’s not calling Nick a coward?
As for not accusing Wright of plagiarism, how about Hall’s headline accusing Nick of stealing the Jonathan Baldwin scoop from an anonymous tweeter?
"Nick Wright Claims Chiefs’ Scoop That Was Not His To Claim And He Knew It"
Followed by Hall’s comment that "WhiteMamba03 was the person who should be properly credited with breaking the Baldwin/Jones story."
Translation: Hall made it clear that he thinks Nick pilfered the story it from an anonymous tweeter who dropped a one line rumor to 30-odd followers.
Now marry that to the dictionary definition of plagiarism: "The unauthorized use or close imitation of the language and thoughts of another author and the representation of them as one’s own original work, as by not crediting the author."
Wright then went about – with mixed success – backing up in time to past Hall misrepresentations of him:
Starting with the time Wright took two days off for dental work following a confrontational on-air interview with Jason Whitlock.
Even though Wright had told listeners well in advance of the Whitlock interview he would be off getting his gums fixed, Hall described Wright’s absence as "an unannounced vacation," implying strongly that it was likely the result of "his tumultuous on-air dialogue" with Whitlock. Even going as far as to imply that that the station might have suspended Wright. "The more I read over (his) comments, the more I understand why someone at Entercom descided he needed some time off," Hall wrote.
Wright’s best argument was over Hall’s busting him for a tweet Wright sent about WHB host Kevin Kietzman‘s son.
"You write in your column about 8 or 9 months ago that I stalked Kevin Kietzman’s son and attacked him on twitter," Wright said. "I bring it to your attention that Kevin Kietzman’s son – who is 21, 22? – because in your column you made it sound like he’s a child. (He) tweeted me something nice about the show and I responded to him. You didn’t fix that, you didn’t adjust it…You let (people) think that I was finding my competitor’s small child and harassing him on the Internet. Why is that OK? Why is it OK to misrepresent? I’m not saying you didn’t accurately say what I tweeted."
Hall’s comeback:
"I think it’s one of the cheapest, lowest things I’ve seen you do. And I still think that, Nick..I didn’t misrepresent that Nick, What I did was I wanted to out you. I thought that was a cheap shot…That’s the guy’s family. Leave it alone…Hey, I’m not backing off that one."
Wright’s retort: "Tell me what I did wrong then? Explain it to me….What did I tweet out? That I was having a nice conversation with Kevin Kietzman’s son?"
Hall: "Yes, yes."
Wright: "And that’s bad?"
Hall: "Yes."
Hard to figure how responding politely to a compliment was a low act, but Hall remained adamant Wright’s innocuous response to Kietzman’s son was a shameless act.
"The Kietzman thing was based on a false premise," says former Star editor Jim Fitzpatrick. "There was no issue there, Nick did nothing improper. But Greg falsely distorts that by alleging there was something improper. And then he distorted the concept of a (news) scoop. He turns the concept of a scoop on its head and then we have a bonfire and we wind iup with 15 minutes of prime time radio with these guys slapping each other around and Hearne Christopher writing three columns about it."
Now back to whether Wright broke the Chiefs fight story…
Wright: "Do you understand what it means to break a story?"
Hall: "Isn’t it the first person that brings that story to light?"
Actually, it’s not, Fitzpatrick explains.
"I understand things have changed in the digital era," Fitzpatrick says, referring to WhiteMamba’s tweet. "But at that point it was just a rumor going out on Twitter. Twitter is not a geniune news source. The person who gets credited for the scoop is the person who confirms and verifies a rumor or report, then fleshes it out and then broadcasts or publishes it in a major medium – whether it’s online, in a television broadcast or on the radio.
Now let’s review…
Lotsa people hate Nick – although his ratings indicate far more love him (or love to hate him). And lots of people enjoy Hall’s deft touch at laying the pipe to local sports talk personalities. His quotes are generally accurate, his spin entertaining but things can get a bit Alice in Wonderland-like.
"This is a guy who’s not covering the news or commenting on it, he wants to create it" Fitzpatrick muses. "Greg does think outside the box, but sometimes he thinks completely outside of the gymnasium."
Now for the record – WhiteMamba’s most recent take on not getting credit for breaking the Chiefs fight story:
Told by another tweeter that he probably wouldn’t get credit for "saying this first," WhiteMamba shot replied, "No, it’s cool tho. They couldn’t go off my word, had to confirm it I guess."
Duh…
DEAD HORSE
I enjoy that u printed at least some of the play by play. Would of been better though time consuming if you did it all with who scored and why. But I think u r also beating a dead horse. Here is two points of contention.
Hall clearly thinks two things in regards to Kietzman’s son. One, you shouldn’t involve family. Two, Nick was trying to use the conversation with Kietzman’s son to basically say “Even KK’s kid likes me.” Thus giving himself some free publicity. Greg was right to object to both things and it was totally unprofessional. I concur with both of Greg’s points.
I contact via the web to say 30-50 of my readers that John Lennon has been shot and is in critical condition. TMZ then reports the following. Where on his body he is shot. What hospital he has been sent to. And who shot him and if he has been arrested. Because TMZ has more facts then me does that mean they broke the story? Because the reach a wider audience does that mean they broke the story? Then if u add that I had tweeted to TMZ days before that Lennon was shot does that muddy the waters further in regards to who broke the news?
Let me give a real life example. I told family, friends, and some people that read my stuff about two weeks prior that Obama would pick Biden as his VP. Lucky guess? Maybe. But I can assure you my speculation was based on sound logic and reasonable sources. So two weeks later when it was reported family, friends, etc said “Rick told us that crap two weeks ago.: For THEM I broke the news.
It would of been real impressive if I had a clue on Sarah Palin but that was not the case.
Finally why does Jim Fitzpatrick get to decide what is an issue and what isn’t? I would love to know what KK thought of his son being dragged into the radio wars and if KK thought it was an issue.
Why does Jim Fitzpatrick get to decide…?
I guess because Hearne called me up and asked me, Rick.
ONE MORE THING
I also want to point out that Nick did the very same thing that he was accusing Greg of doing. And that is where with me he fell off the high road.
In Tuesday’s tirade when blasting the pathetic Greg Hall he talked about his two week stint on radio (Not to far off on that one). But then he went on to talk about him only lasting two months at the Star. That was a LIE!!! So the guy that is bitchin and moaning about being lied about turns around and tells blatant lies himself. So I’m suppose to feel sympathy for him? And what is worse is that it wasn’t even a good lie and one that was easily refuted. You of all people Hearne knew he was lying in regards to Hall’s tenure at the Star.
So with Nick and his complaints about lying. I guess it takes one to know one.
And now we know
And now we now know that obviously Hearne should call me in the future, Jim.
But since we have a dialog. How would you feel about someone dragging your family into a business disagreement or rivalry. Would it then become an issue for you?
4 THE RECORD
I like Nick. And Greg.
Family affairs
Rick — I don’t know what Nick said to or about Kietzman’s son. I’m just not familiar with that interplay. But, from what Hearne transcribed, it appears that young Kietzman initiated the exchange….”(He) tweeted me something nice about the show and I responded to him.” I don’t see that as “dragging your family” into an issue. Maybe I’m missing something, though…
GREG….BE CAREFUL…YOU’LL END UP IN
A LAWSUIT…BE CAREFUL…
Great Pub
Great publicity for GH/NW good stuff. Hearne you need to get a weekly podcast going…seeing as Glaze speaks and thinks much better than he writes. Seriously…You and Glaze would kill it for an Hour a week.
NW is like the young gym rat that always wants to play 5 on 5 with the adults…he knows he is going to get his ass handed to him but he also knows its the only way he is going to get better.
Rick, Harley still has the record for most consecutive posts on KCC I think around 10.
Excuse me
I apologize. As Master Glazer’s man servent I really shouldn’t speak. However if you will forgive my boldness I would like to share some quick thoughts.
Mr. Fitzpatrick I have to question your ability to be an authority on any issue. Forgive me sir. But two points that makes one wonder about your ability to reason.
First you have given your number to Hearne. Second, you accepted Hearne’s call when he did call. Your judgement must be impaired sir.
Perhaps with all due respect it would of been wise to not comment on something you admittedly are not familiar with. Forgive me for my forwardness.
I shall return to my quarters and work on removing the fecal materials from Master Glazer’s briefs.
yes….but
Hearne
Maybe it’s just me, but you seem to always take a soft handed approach with Wright, and go out of your way to hammer an extra lick on Hall. (no fish sticks on that entire sentence) When you are critical of Wright, you always follow it up with an excuse or a Paul Harvey “rest of the story” line. With Hall you do the opposite, you’ll infer he might be right, but…. One thing is certain, of all the posts regarding Hall since he left KCC, none have been positive. Not saying you are holding some kind of grudge, only you know that answer, but thats how it reads.
MOO MOO MOVE ON
Cow’s titties are squirtin’ dust on this already. KCMOSD is the new hot button. Inquiring minds want to know what your old money, blue blood swells that still live in KCMO think about the latest shuckin’ and jivin’. It’s the damn taproot of all of our social problems.
Get in your wheelhouse. This is the kinda stuff where you can kick ass!
KC Star???
Jim Fitzpatrick says—“I understand things have changed in the digital era…Twitter is not a geniune (sic) news source.”
If Twitter is not a genuine news source in the digital era, does JimmyC think that the KC Star is a genuine news source? I used to think so, but there are many times I’d rather get my news from Twitter or Facebook than the Star.
1 – Hearne likes dead horses, 2 – Fitzpatrick is clueless
Good grief — you’re soon going to be treading in Kelly Urich territory with 0 comments if you keep this up. Is it too difficult to come up with other topics or is Louie Wright underwriting the blog to get you to keep pimping his son’s name?
Then this Fitzpatrick guy says two assinine things back to back, first “Twitter is not a geniune news source.” No it’s not a source in and of itself but rather its an aggregate of thousands, if not millions, of news sources. If it’s not a news source, then pray tell why is Nick Wright using it as the means to, at least according to you, break a story? Second, he says, “[t]he person who gets credited for the scoop is the person who confirms and verifies a rumor or report, then fleshes it out and then broadcasts or publishes it in a major medium – whether it’s online, in a television broadcast or on the radio…” Do you even understand that you don’t have to be a follower of someone to see their tweets?? Unless they are protected they will show up in searches as well as auto-notify searches on particular topics either based on hash tags or keywords. Additionally, there is no valid comparison between Twitter and a newspaper in terms of how readers consume the medium. Newspapers utilize no reader interaction and are a single stage form of communication – paper to reader. In contrast, Twitter very much utilizes reader interaction and is a multi-stage form of communication initial source – reader – reader – reader, etc… growing exponentially all the time. Lastly, Nick and the 610 crew were touting that Nick had broken the story — he didn’t break the story – it was already out there in the exact same medium they were using. Frankly, I’m not even sure that Nick got the “scoop” as Fitzpatrick defines it because Wright never was able to confirm or verify the report.
It may be dead, but I could have sworn I saw you riding it a second ago.
Let’s get it straight; KK’s son is like three years younger than Nick. He’s over 21. They’re contemporaries. He publicly reached out to Nick, Nick publicly thanked him. You guys may have some deep seated family issues, but geez…
Did you read or listen to the heat in Greg’s voice? That’s a little twisted, dude.
That wasn’t a lie, that was an on-air slip. Greg lives for those kind of boners and they’re all over the airwaves when people talk for four hours a day, five days a week. I corrected that slip if you didn’t notice.
You’re not; read Greg’s quote. He confirmed that what Nick said was nice about KK’s son.
And I like Greg and Rick and Jim and Nick (even though I don’t really know him)
Couple of thoughts…
This has been hashed out enough, but just two quick points:
1) Hearne, your contention that Nick had the better arguments seems to be based mostly on the debate about who should get credit for breaking the Baldwin story. You haven’t really supported that excpet with the comments from an old media newspaper guy. It’s clearly subjective, which is fine, but most interested parties disagree with your conclusion. Regardless, Nick had the opportuntiy to handle this situation correctly by simply giving the other dude credit right from the start. He choose a different route and that choice reflects poorly on his judgment and maturity.
2) This Fitzpatrick guys says “I understand things have changed in the digital era” and then goes on to prove that he doesn’t understand how things have changed in the digital era. His perspective reflects the way he wants things to work, not the way it actually does. That era is dead and gone.
DO PEOPLE
REALLY CARE ABOUT STORIES LIKE THIS. Like Hall said this,Wright said this. Fitzpatrick is a schlong. I saw a person cutting his grass yesterday. He was sweating. Then he raked his yard. YAWN.
Rick responds to Hearne part 1
Hearne-Its dead alright. You went from 36 comments story 1. Then 13 comments story 2. And because I’ve made a half dozen comments and banter with Fitz I’m pushing u to over 20 on story 3. The law of diminishing returns my man.
I heard heat in both guys voices. One guy, Nick, brought up stuff from 9 months ago. In fact he was the one that brought up the KK son story. Sounds like he has been carrying some things. Maybe he is twisted?
What does age have to do with anything in regards to the son? Let’s say that Stan Glazer visits a comedy club tonight. Not Craig’s. The club owner then posts on his web site pictures of Stan at HIS club. Identifies him as the father of Craig. Which of course then implies that even Craig’s dad likes his club better then Craigs. Is that a smart promotional move? ABSOLUTELY!!!! Is it also a cheap shot. ABSOLUTELY. And Nick did the same thing with KK son. Age is not an issue. And Greg called him on it. Nick after using the stunt instead of owning it decided to boo hoo about it. End of story.
Nick’s slippage
Hearne saying that Nick slipped when he stated Greg only worked for the Star for 2 months. You are REALLY giving him the benefit of the doubt. My opinion was since this was said during his tirade about how pathetic Greg was that it was not an error it was a blatant falsehood to make Greg sound like a nobody in the sports business. My guess from what other listeners have said this is what they heard also.
So you listened to Greg’s voice and you hear twisted. You listen to Nick and he just makes a slip up. Is that what you are telling us?
And I’m confused how did you correct Nick’s slip?
Hearne says
he likes Greg, Nick, Rick, and Jim. But my question is…..do u like Tracy?
How can I get u 2 kids back together? 1 + 1 =
For Fitz
I think I’ve answered ur question in regards to family involvement in a response to Hearne.
Now let me throw in my 2 cents about Twitter being a legit or not legit news source. Chiefs release information that linebacker Brandon Siler has been placed on injured reserve. They don’t state how or what his injury is. However Brandon’s agent via twitter announces that he has an Achilles tendon and his season is over with. What information did radio, TV, and print media use as their source in regards to the injury. The source that gave them the most information which was Twitter.
So be it fast weather information, a political scandal, or breaking Chiefs news. Twitter is a news source.
Is that good or bad? That’s another entire debate. But just because we may not like it or accept it. It’s here to stay.
The others are dead right.
If you read something via Twitter, Facebook, or JoeBlowwebsite.com, and if even gives you so much as a whiff of inspiration for your own “article”, then you need to source it. These are arguments and discussion that went on back in 2004. Blog years are like dog years and that was forever ago. It is nearly 2012 and the standards are there, widely accepted, and widely used. When I brought this up last week, you said that you sometimes link in your articles — when you think it is necessary. That is bullshit. Are you going to start deciding to use commas for periods when you feel like it? No. Because it is accepted practice to end a sentence with a period, not a comma. Is it law? No. Is it the courteous and right thing to do? Does it make the blog better and more readable? Of course. Same with links.
The dead tree edition news written by the very serious people is on life support. Just like the record industry refusing to embrace and invest in file sharing technology until it was nearly too late, newspapers and the old school mentality are headed toward the same fate. A shell of what they once were and becoming increasingly irrelevant by the day.
If you adapt and adjust, you could make this blog so much better – which is something we all want to see. I started coming to KC Confidential in the hopes there was some decent local content. Instead, I got drawn into the train wreck that is the comments section. Shame on me. But, community moderation is another topic for another day.
Age Issue
I’d bet that attitudes about digital media as a news source are highly correlated to age. If you’ve spent most of your professional life under one set of paradigms, it is not always easy to change your way of thinking. I think I see that coming through loud and clear in this discussion.
How can the horse be dead when the story runs the next day?
Sorry to get back to you late, busy week and the Internet went down a couple times, including after I’d penned a response to you here. So let’s see. First off, thanks for the critique.
We did deliver a blowjob on Greg’s new site with him poking fun at KCC after he left, remember?
Like Greg, I do media criticism. Been doing it a long time and that entails finding rough edges, mistakes and silly things to grouse about. I’m not combing the earth searching for attaboys – I prefer edge.
And just like when Greg was at the Star he never took any shots at Jason or Joe or Star beat writers. But the minute that he left, he totally did. That’s how the game is played.
One of the reasons it’s easy (and tempting) to look at things from Wright’s perspective is so many commenters love to play the role of tormentors.
And what the heck, when someone goes ballistic over a 21 year-old dude tweeting Nick and Nick Tweeting him a thank-you back, that’s just silly. Not to mention a little weird.
I think that’s why a lot of 50-something dudes are down so on Wright. They totally can’t relate.
Parents protecting their kids is one thing but this deal is a head scratcher extraordinaire
Lemme get this straight; you think an unconfirmed, anonymous, one-line tweet by a dude with not one but two fake names is a news source?
How am I gonna get the comments down to zero with weighing in?
He verified it with two sources within the Chiefs
Dearest shecky;
I supported it by pointing out that the tweet – unread by nick until after he’d fleshed out, developed, confirmed and reported basically the full story – was a one line, unconfirmed sentence by a dude with two fake names and 39 pals.
Do the math!
That ain’t the way news is broken, sir sheck. Not even in the year of our lord 2011. Journalism still exists
It’s far from a cheap shot. Since you too insist on being silly, allow me to remind you that words still have meaning. Exact meanings.
Now here’s the definition of a cheap shot: “any mean or unsportsmanlike remark or action, especially one directed at a defenseless or vulnerable person.”
No. 1, KK’s ADULT son initiated this conversation, therefore it was not unsportsmanlike.
No. 2 both exchanges were upbeat and positive and therefore cannot be classified as “mean”
Now I may not be that smart, but nor am I a complete dummy. I know what Greg was getting at but it speaks more to him being wildly oversensitive (and a little bit unbalanced to let it month’s later even raise such undeserved ire).
You guys are basically saying no parent should ever have their kid thrown under the bus by an opponent. And to an extent, with a young child, which Nick made a point of saying Greg had distorted, that seems reasonable.
But it totally doesn’t apply with someone over the age of 18 or 21. Especially when they knowingly initiate things and it all goes down in a friendly way.
My advice is to not be so thin skinned.
That assumes that Nick read the tweet, which he did not, JenB.
Of course, an even clearer journalistic rule of long standing, is when you get ready to accuse somebody of something and drop the hammer, you give them a call and chance to comment.
That was not done.
Trust me, over the years there were many stories where all the evidence pointed in one direction and a call to the guilty party either turned the tables or killed the story entirely.
It’s one thing to read a Mike Hendricks column and tee off on how you think it sucks. But when you play “gotcha” and are reporting news, there’s a higher standard.
And btw, while Wright says he didn’t see the tweet, don’t forget that it had only a third of the information Nick reported, was unverified (Nick verified his story) and went out to almost nobody under a pair of fake names.
How about you take an intro to journalism class and see how your argument fares there?