This is how history gets messed up…
There’s a responsibility that comes with running a virtual news monopoly as "the newspaper of record." That’s why print reporters and editors take their jobs so seriously. Sure, they’re human and some of the news comes – however subtly – laced with views. But by and large newspapers are still the ones who document and help shape what passes for histtory.
So when they screw up, they correct it, right
Uh, some of the time…
Which brings us to the case of the Kansas City Business Rights Coalition. A group largely composed of local bars, restaurants and casinos. Star columnist Mike Hendricks erroneously reported last week that group’s primary objectives in the upcoming political races were to tell candidates they wanted a statewide ban on smoking in bars and restaurants in Missouri and to end smoking in casinos.
Dead wrong, says KCBRC head Bill Nigro.
Nigro asked for a correction but recieved only a clarification, leaving readers with the indelable impression that these were the group’s objectives. After calling Star reader rep Derek Donovan to ask again for a correction to the obvious error, Nigro sat back and waited.
"Well, he called me back – the guy I said was a dick – and left a message that said, after talking to some of the other members, a clarification is all we would get," Nigro says.
Leaving even Business Rights members and casinos wondering what the deal was.
"We had our interviews with all the candidates for City Council and mayor this week and a couple of the members said, ‘Why are we for a statewide ban on smoking?’ " Nigro says. "And I said, we’re not. And they said, ‘Well, it was in the paper.’ "
There’s more…
"One of our casino members called to ask me why I wanted to ban smoking at the casinos," Nigro says. "They’re on our team and I told him that the Star totally misrepresented me. I mean, here’s a guy who has been working with me and he felt I was behind-the-scenes stabbing him. I felt awful about it."
Nigro says Donovan offered to let him the submit to an ‘As I see it’ column.
Raising the question of whether the they’ll edit out Nigro’s correction.
The $64 million question: How can you get something dead wrong and not correct it?
You know what they say about power…
Kay O’Connor
Nigro got off lucky. This reminds me of when The Star implied that Kay O’Connor opposed the 19th Amendment. Except she didn’t. If you check all those stories in The Star you won’t find a quote of her making any such statement. What you do find is carefully worded boilerplate leaving that impression, but no quote. The allegation was made by Delores Furtado, a political opponent.
Steve Cloud tried to get Kay to step down based on the alleged comment and when he did, two witnesses to the conversation showed up and said that O’Connor had said no such thing and that, on the contrary, Furtado kept baiting O’Connor who failed to rise to the bait. Cloud attempt failed in a meeting of Lenexa mods.
As I pointed out in my comments under your other story on this topic, if your reader’s rep will use his blog to wage a personal vendetta, who else is going to do any differently?
Didn’t make any difference, once the story got out the AP printed it as if it were fact, and even Jay Leno ridiculed her during his monologue.
Crap!
inverted paragraph 3 and 4. hearne, do you think you can find any of the great copy editors that The Star fired to clean up our worst errors?
News Monopoly?
Wait a sec…I can’t go two days on KC Confidential without hearing how the Star is a dying beast, pushed to the trashpile of formerly important institutions. The Star is as healthy as the Dodo and as important as making sure the deck chairs on the Titanic were appropriately arranged. Buh-bye Star, KCC says every damn day.
And now I find out that it is/holds a “virtual news monopoly” in our fair city? How can this be? Wouldn’t a news monopoly be healthy and huge, a vibrant business and not the decaying carcass that KCC constantly says it is?
Which is it Hearne a dying organization or a healthy monopoly? Or are you suggesting that it’s a dying, healthy, relevant, trivial, vibrant, decaying virtual news monopoly.
The Communist regimes
of eastern Europe held virtual monopolies on the flows of information right up to the days they imploded. There is no contradiction. Certainly The Star has reduced its work force substantially, but, by the same token, there is no other competing news source of its magnitude in KC. This morning Hosni Mubarak was President of Egypt with virtual dictatorial control. This evening he is a man without a country. Is that so hard to comprehend?
Stop Buying the Damn Paper
So why do any of you boobs still buy, or contribute info to, The Star? Kill it already. Expunge it from your lives and conversations. Urge others to.
That makes sense, John, if you overlook the nonsense
The Soviet media wasn’t a “virtual” monopoly. It was an actual monopoly. You couldn’t turn on a television or read any printed material that hadn’t been vetted and approved by The Kremlin. Yes, there was stuff like Radio Free Europe and the BBC on shortwave and the average Russian had almost no access to any of it. Next I suppose you’ll be telling me that samizdat qualified.
The fact is that the Star is no monopoly at all. This is just Hearne wanting it both ways. When the Star fucks up and screws over a guy like Nigro, they’re this big, bad behemoth, a leviathan swallowing up the little guy. But, when it suits Hearne’s purposes, the Star is a beached whale, bloated on the krill it ate yesterday that are now rotting it unhealthily from the inside out.
There’s a kajillion other media outlets that could have carried Nigro’s arguments and concerns and would have happily helped him take down the Star for its failure to issue a correction. There are four TV stations and god knows how many radio stations. There are independent newspapers and local magazines of every stripe and Nigro could have bitched to any of them but the Star is the big, bad media monopoly here.
Don’t get me wrong; I’m not defending the Star or how they treated Nigro with their clarification/correction. I really don’t know who or what to believe but it’s apparent that EVERYONE in this story, Hearne included, has an axe to grind so I can’t assume anyone is neutral. However, this whole “the-Star-is-a-media-monopoly” thing is just what Hearne is arguing today to trash the Star. But I’m already counting the minutes until KCC comes up with its next “the Star is dying and will lay off 10,498 workers TOMORROW but it doesn’t really matter because no one reads the Star anyway” story.
@ Gavin, Good points
My main point to you is that it is both possible that The Star can be a major presence in the Kansas City media market and still be in decline. The major network news programs have lost millions of viewers, but they still have somewhere around 20 million households tuning in. That’s not an insignificant number. Nor is The Star an insignificant publication. If you’re one if the 24 hour networks and want background on a local story, you’re probably going to visit The Star’s website in addition to your local affiliate. Look at Hendricks. He’s an idiot, but he still made enough of a stink to get chewed out by O’Reilly. So if what you’re hearing Hearne say is that The Star is irrelevant, that’s not correct, but I don’t think he’s ever said that.
What’s puzzling me, and maybe I’m misreading these two stories, is that yes, I believe The Star screwed Nigro and misquoted him. Hell, Dave Helling recently quoted Darla Jaye incorrectly and she emailed him the quotes. I guess someone fired the cut and paste function down there also. But I got the impression from these articles that Nigro was under the impression that they were going to do a puff piece for him and I guarantee you no such promise was made. It’s not that The Star doesn’t do puff pieces, they just don’t do them for people they disagree with.
goddamn, “herbert”
every time you touch a keyboard altevogt the world gets a little stupider.
Thank you
Always nice to know I have a fan base to work from.
Kudos, Mr. Altevogt, Mr. Hearne …
… good points. Not everyone here believes you’re an idiot, only those you piss off.
The STAR IS dying. I literally do not know ANYONE under 40 who reads or subscribes to it. Just as I do not know ANYONE under 30 that has a landline telephone. It IS you’re parents / grandparents source of ‘news’. When that generation attains room temperature, so will the STAR.
An aside; it always amazes me how many posters here defend the STAR or it’s actions. Obviously this ‘small, irrelevant, insignificant’ blog pisses folk off there to no end….
Keep up the good work, Hearne!
Curious
On Jan. 23 on this very Web site, Craig Glazer quoted Bill Nigro thusly:
“It’s effected [sic] many jobs, people are now out of work because of the it. More important, the city allows people to smoke at the Power and Light District, which it owns. Worse yet, they ALLOW SMOKING IN ALL CASINOS. [emphais Glazer’s] Guess they don’t care about your health there, huh?”
Nigro feels the issue is all about money and where the city will allow the law and where they won’t, not about your “good health.”
“For God’s sake I don’t even smoke, but many people who go out after 10 p.m. do and they want to smoke in the bars, not outside in the cold like animals. It’s not fair that the Casinos can provide smoking and the rest of the bars outside Power and Light can and everybody else can’t.”
Sure sounds like he’s saying that a total ban, everywhere including casions, would be fair. Did he call up Glazer and demand a retraction?
Comment:
Not sure this is the absolute truth…
TigerVIP 02:48:06 PM – Sun. Jan 23. 2011
You sure sales are down because of smoking or because NOONE goes to Kelly’s, Westport or whatever Stagecoach Inn. I don’t know anyone of my friends that no longer goes out because of smoking. Sounds like a Red Herring to me by Nigro. Unfortunately, those bars are failing because quite frankly they have been left behind by all of the ‘new’ areas or options people have today in KC. As a smoker I am pleasantly surprised how much better the bar experience is without the smoke. Glazer you said it yourself the last time you drove through Westport…Ghost town. Not because of a smoking ban…come on, man. Please give us more credit.
And to be fair you CANNOT smoke inside ANY of the bars in KCP&L but it is quite curious that most of the clubs were built with pseudo outdoor patio features than can accomodate most smokers. Hmmmm, wonder if Cordish knew about the ban before the rest of us did?
Comment:
Gerald Bostock 03:18:11 PM – Sun. Jan 23. 2011
I don’t know if Cordish was given a heads-up on the smoking ban. What is more likely is that because of their awareness of the national trends over the last 20 years, they knew that smoking restrictions were becoming more stringent and that smoking bans were inevitable. It’s not some cynical political deal; it’s just smart business–just like anyone building a facility now will incorporate greater energy efficiency and sustainability into the design. It’s called progress.
Comment:
DVD 05:06:57 PM – Sun. Jan 23. 2011
Good thing you tracked down an unbiased, objective source to get the facts from, or else we may never have known the true depths of the tragedy that is the smoking ban. Oh wait! This story has no facts! Only an angry bar owner who threw out the term “half.” Well, if that’s true, then we should do some research in Westport to find out what makes it so drastically different from the rest of the country, because almost across the board, smoking bans have been found to have no significant impact on bar sales. See for my EVIDENCE (something you might want to look into before “reporting” things, Mr. Glazer) a study done in El Paso in 2002 which also references similar studies done in other cities with similar findings at : http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm5307a2.htm
Comment:
The Truth
Bill Nigro 05:31:44 PM – Sun. Jan 23. 2011
Oops!
Tagged on comments in my cut and paste job from Glazer’s Jan. 23 post. Sorry about that.
Anyway, on the subject of the Star’s “monopoly,” I am reminded of this Internet post which I quote off the top of my head after former CBS newsie Bernard Goldberg wrote his book “exposing” the liberal bias/monopoly of the media.
Bernard Goldberg wrote a book saying that conservatives have no voice in the media. So he appeared on Meet the Press to say conservatives have no voice. Then he appeared on Face the Nation to say conservatives have no voice. Then he appeared on ABC This Week to say conservatives have no voice. Then he appeared on Rush Limbaugh to say conservatives have no voice. Then he appeared on Bill O’Reilly to say conservatives have no voice. Then he appeared on Sean Hannity to say conservatives have no voice. Then he appeared Greta Van Sustern to say conservatives have no voice. Then he appeared on Morning Joe to say conservatives have no voice. Then he appeared on Fox & Friends to say conservatives have no voice. Then he appeared on G. Gordon Liddy to say conservatives have no voice. Then he appeared on Mark Levin to say conservatives have no voice.
Then Michelle Malkin, Jonah Goldberg, Ann Coulter, Kathleen Parker, Andrew Sullivan, Dick Morris, Brent Bozell, Oliver North, Cal Thomas, Linda Chavez, Pat Buchanan, Mona Charen, Jeff Jacoby and John Stossel all wrote syndicated columns talking about how conservatives have no voice.
Oh, and Mr. Altevogt?
Perhaps the Star — and media coast to coast — “implied” that Kay O’Connor opposed the 19th Amendment by quoting her accurately:
“I think the 19th Amendment, while it’s not an evil in and of itself, is a symptom of something I don’t approve of. The 19th Amendment is around because men weren’t doing their jobs, and I think that’s sad. I believe the man should be the head of the family. The woman should be the heart of the family.”
Just for the record, for those who aren’t familiar with Altevogt’s habit of trying to rewrite history he finds inconvenient.
ALL OF YOU IDIOTS STFU!
sorry to mess up your stupid comments…but the star is still doing well. In fact now that they;ve
let go of the worthless reporters….they are still making money with their print and online editions.
Now that they dumped hearne (who’s column has been shown not to be a factor in subscription
readers) they’ve followed the path of thousands of other businesses. Do more with less payroll.
They still sell 400,000 copies on sunday…and do you think the advertsiers who spent their money
are idiots for spending the millions they spend in print.
Sure it may be people over 40….but thats where the money is now.
Teens….kids 25-34…..adults 40 plus…they’ve got the spending power….and people 40-55 who
are in their prime consummption years still read the paper.
You naysayers act like its only the star who’s lost readers…its every paper/magazine in the
world….its not just the star.
But the star still makes a huge profit despite what hearne and tony and the altvogt idiot says.
Hearne….they fired you …and now you play with this small website getting 3000 unique visitors a
month…where you used to have some pull and people catered to you because you had an
audience. You too have taken a deep deep fall….
Everyone wants to beat up on the star….they’re the punching bag for everyone who is either
not making any money….is unemployed…has been fired by the star….or doesn’t understand
business.
some guys have been successful since leaving the star….whitlock..jopo….but all the rest have
settled for second rate positions at small unread websites…
Do you think hall or glazer could get columns at a reall paper…absoluteluy not…..they
‘re nothing but smal time writers. Even hearne couldnt cut it at the sun….the worst newspaper
iin the world.
So stop trying the bash the star….i still see thousands of people reading it….even those who say
its going downhill.
Times have changed for all media. The star will survive long after all you amatuers have gone broke
and tried to find other jobs. Good luck.
Again…lets get serious discussions…not try to bash others without facts and figures….lets debate
intelligently and with comon sense.
@Karen (or perhaps Derek in drag)
Familiar with that quote, but that quote does not say that she was opposed to the 19th Amendment, or is in any way opposed to women voting. Indeed, how stupid do you (and any other sucker who bought that line) have to be to believe that a woman with a record of not only voting, but holding public office would oppose the very Amendment that gave her the right to do so. More to the point is that I know Kay. She’s a bright, independent woman, but, or course, since she doesn’t goose step to the feminist line she’s vilified by liberal hate rags like The Star. I also know that she wrote a letter to the editor of The Star, but The Star wouldn’t publish it with a critique of their reporter in it and so it was never published. Again, read the quote “I think the 19th Amendment, while it’s not an evil in and of itself, is a symptom of something I don’t approve of.” Words still mean things even when you libs try to bastardize them.
@harley
With that level of faith in The Star, perhaps you should invest on some McClatchy stock. be sure to let us know how that works out for you.
Well, John, I know Kay too, and yes, she is that stupid.
The quote speaks for itself. You can try to spin it all you want, but what your really lame efforts to excuse and recast plain English boils down to is that Kay O’Connor is stupid, one way or the other. She either dissed the 19th Amendment, which she clearly does, or isn’t bright enough to say what she means, means what she says, then stand behind it.
@Karen (or perhaps Derek in drag)
Yes, how stupid she is for not saying what you want her to say. how uppitty, how independent, everything a liberal woman should never be. After all, what will the Teddy Kennedy’s and Bill Clintons do without a bunch of docile mindless bimbos around?
Nigor You Bring Out The Beast In Us all
Boy Billy you sure find a way to piss off the readers. Glad I don’t.
I apologise Herne, but I love your
Blog–and think this guy is a big time addition. You don’t have a foodie really–ck it out—-sorry again.
He is hilarious and original—-http://togoornottogo.com/
Once again, caught in one lie, your only recourse is to tell another one.
Kay O’Connor didn’t become a national laughing stock because she was “uppity” and “independent.” Quite the opposite. She quite plainly said women wouldn’t have the vote if men had “done their jobs.” And the funny thing is, you brought this up as an example of the Star twisting clearly spoken words, as in the case of Nigro.
Bill Nigro has been going around for quite some time arguing that the smoking ban isn’t fair because it doesn’t apply everywhere in the metropolitan area, including suburbs and KC casinos. So when you take that to its logical conclusion and he gets burned by his own words, he denies saying them, while claiming they mean something else.
That isn’t even clever.
Uh….glazer…..please use peoples right name…
it’s NIGRO…NOT _________________!
Derek/Karen
Your big lie theory doesn’t make it. She didn’t say what The Star implied that she said. Your quote doesn’t say what The Star implied she said. I also notice that you had no response to my description in the other article on this topic of Derek’s/your unethical comduct. Go back and neck with Fannin. Maybe you can keep your job a little longer.
Harley: Alien or Earthling?
Reading Harley’s posts are like watching a car wreck. In his latest diatribe he goes off on Hearne and his staff for bashing others without reliable facts and figures. Of course, part of his own defense of the Star states that they sell over 400,000 copies on Sunday even though the last official audit put them under 300,000. Pot, meet kettle.
Wow, Altevogt. I showed you exactly what O’Connor said, and all you can come back with is that it was not what the Star “mplied” that she said?
How about some evidence of what the Star “implied”? Can’t do it, can you, because after all, it was only “implied,” which means you can claim that they “implied” that O’Connor engaged in human sacrifce at midnight on Halloween.
In other words, all you know how to do is stack one more lie on top of all the others.
Here’s a clue for you: Only a very tiny few in number of Kay neo-con groupies, such as yourself, ran to her defense when she spoke this nonsense nearly 10 years ago. And the laughter grew so loud because she couldn’t con her way out of her own words or claim they meant the opposite of what she said, that even they abandoned ship.
All except you, of course, who has no trouble being a laughing stock if that’s the only attention you get.
Derek/Karen
The reason I can’t show you what they implied is that I don’t have access to The Star’s library like you do and I’m not about to put any money in their coffers to access the database to locate it. the quote speaks for itself. It does not say that she does not believe in a woman’s right to vote, nor does it say that she thinks the 19th Amendment should be repealed. What The Star implied that she said was very clear from the boilerplate they used instead of quotes. As a librarian and reader’s rep you clearly have access to The Star’s library, publish all of the articles on the topic for so we can see that quote in context. Also, show us where The Star allowed her to write a response in the letters column, or in an AS I See It column. That’s something that doesn’t exist.
john doe….meet your asshole…where your head is buried
APPARENTLYyou and I have been reading different numbers…my 400,000 includs all home delivery…
all newstands…all purchased copies on the streets…all copies throughout the dma…all copies
mailed….all copies distributed free (libraries/schools)…all copies that are read in outlying
areas like topeka…lawrence….st. joe….clinton…..these numbers wer4e provided to me
about 4 months ago so maybe they have gone down a bit.
the problem with you john doe is that your head is up your ass like the rest of the clowns
on this site.
You may say my writing is a car wreck but fucking idiots like you can’t present any factual information
besides the number of readers of thepaper. What about the other facts I have presented in
almost 30 writings….no you have no brains to debate intelligent points so you reach to the bottom
of your ass and grab out some bulllshit to contradict me.
Here’s what i suggest you do. go count every kc star bought and read on sundays. I presume that
each paper has 1.6 or more readers…but i did see some stats from nebraska furniture mart about
readership of the kcstar. For those naysayers this advertiser did their own research. I’m guessing they
are spending 3 millon with the star in advertsing each year…(just a guess john fuckhead doe)
and they said that the coverage they receive from the star surpasses all other media in the
market combined. For large purchases…people and buyers still go to the star for advertising
and special sales.
Now go back to you basement and don’t come out til you can debate me in something impooirtant
besides how mamy people read or buy the star. In other words…you’re just another fuckhead
with no brains to carry on an intellignet conversation about the subject…which if you read the
writing would understand that my position is that the star continues to be very profitable.
Problem is the parent company is buried under so much debt that they need every penny from
the successful papers to pay for the debt load they assumed when they bought other newspapers.
Now ….please say something intelligent…if you can.
Derek/Karen
Incidentally, Derek, thanks for the writing samples, Kay O’Connor is a liar, I’m a liar, Nigro is a liar and so were all of the folks who criticized you during your meltdown. I’ll have to go back and dig up a few of those quotes. And what’s with “Karen”, is that what Fannin calls you? And from your comments about neo-con groupies I take it that you’re not holding yourself out as a conservative anymore. Hard to maintain that kind of a lie, isn’t it?
Ahh, here we go. Here’s you denouncing someone else as a liar (and also a coward for posting anonymously):
” KC_Star_Burner, if you used that name and claim you contacted me, you are lying. There is no record in my logs of an e-mail from an address using “burner.” I received not one complaint from a person using this name. It’s very easy to throw rotten eggs in an anonymous forum. And if you used another name, Mr. Pseudonym, please reveal it here. But you’re calling me a liar — and that’s untrue. I respond to each and every call, letter and e-mail I get. As I’ve explained before, the spam filter does tag some things by mistake, especially if they contain profanity. Boo hoo. Grow up and learn some other words. And if I “ignore” you, how about sending another e-mail or picking up the phone? I could get a non-specific ID and leave comments telling people that User X threatened to kill my pets. Why would anyone have a reason to believe me? Again: Grow up. Use your name if what you say is so important. Don’t be an anonymous coward
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derekdonovan wrote on 1/13/2009 1:19:33 AM:”
Hearne was right
As Hearne stated in the other article on this topic, “And the one card you need not to play is the one where you alienate readers by being rude or defensive. Those are areas Derek falls down in” As we see from the quote in my previous post, submitted by Derek under one of his own columns at 1:19 in the morning, Hearne is spot on. This is why Nigro correctly referred to him as a “dick”. Catch The Star in a lie and you’re the one that’s the liar. Even after one poster after another pointed out that they had submitted email complaints to Derek and never received a reply (and had their comment promptly deleted) he still makes that false claim in this late night meltdown.
Derek/Karen may be a good librarian, but as a reader’s rep, he/she/it is the epitome of what The Star has come to stand for in this community.
So that’s all you got left? Accusing me of being Derek Donovan? Do you even realize how many people are laughing at you?
What’s the matter? Does it blow all your right-wing fundie circuits to have your butt handed to you by a woman?
Here’s a crash course on honest, adult discussion in the unlikely event you ever find yourself in one:
When you make an assertion, such as the Star twisted O’Connor’s words into the opposite of what she said, then it is up to you to support your own thesis. Whining that you are too lazy to do the research doesn’t cut it. It is, in fact, an admission of defeat as well as intellectual laziness.
Now as far as my identity, my father is a very prominent minister. Think!
Oooh, oooh, let me guess…
… “my father is a very prominent minister.”
The Reverend Fred Phelps?
LOL!
I said “prominent” not “as deranged as Altevogt.”
But Altevogt has already deluded himself (and no one else) into believing that I’m Derek Donovan, and there is no moving the deluded off their delusions.
And I’m sure he thinks that if he repeats the same lie at least five times, it will become the truth. It’s his M.O., as my father tumbled onto many moons ago.
Well Gavin, it’s both.
It’s not dying but it’s hurting – and hurting bad. Why do you think it’s spent the past three years laying off people every three months and cutting expenses to the bone? It’s readership in print – where the money is – is falling fast. And it can’t make up for the profits print generates with the relatively puny profits it makes online.
That said – and I know you’re a smart guy – there’s no denying that the Star carries the biggest-by-far news bat in town. The TV and radio newsies combined don’t even begin to approach the broad local news content and coverage or reach the audience the Star does.
It’s fallen a long way and probably – mostly in print where the money is – has a long way more to go.
And for the record, the dodo bird was around for a long time – longer than the Star – before it became extinct somewhere around the mid 17th Century.
Thanks, Ptolemy but…
I for one don’t want to see it go away. Wouldn’t mind seeing it get better though.
I still subscribe to the print edition which gives me a window into how most Star readers are getting their news from the paper. But Tony and many others only read it online or thru RSS feeds.
Hard not to talk about it though because of its position in the marketplace. It would become the proverbial elephant in the room then. Elephants are hard to ignore by my measure.
So you think you’ve figured me out, eh?
Wow Karen, taht’s a long one.
Allow me to offer a short answer. Nigro doesn’t say in Glazer’s quotes that he or the Business Rights Coalition wants to end smoking at casinos, he says it’s unfair. Don’t make the same mistake Hendricks did. Nor did he say he or the organization wanted a statewide ban.
Here’s what happened when the smoking ban vote went down.
The wily political operatives guiding the campaign for the ban recognized that the casinos would bring big money – six-figure money – to the table to fight it. So they exempted them.
Clever, huh?
Three thousand visitors a month, huh? You make some good points at times, H Man, but you suck at guessing games. Try more than a quarter million
Karen, the job of a reporter or a columnist reporting news is not to take something to what they perceive as a logical conclusion. Hendricks put words in Nigro and the organizations mouths. Incorrect words attributed directly to them.
You don’t get that? Try thinking about it a little more.
You guys sure are frisky here right before Valentine’s Day..
Where’s the love?
Well, it could be the other Fred Phelps, Bob Meneilly
but you said prominent, not hateful. You’re certainly hateful enough to be the fruit of Bigot Bob’s loins. Sort of like the Phelps klan all over again down there at Westboro Presbyterian.
Still doesn’t explain the access to The Star’s library and Derek’s idiotic writing style. I must admit though it did have a little more of a masculine edge to it than I’m used to with Derek. You may be just a shade more butch than he is. As for getting my butt handed to me by a woman, happens every time I argue with my wife.
Still, the challenge is there. put the quote (which fails to make your point no matter how often you claim it does) into context, publish the whole article, indeed, all of the articles and also show us the Kay O’Connor letter that she was allowed to publish.
Bzzz! Wrong answer! Care to try again?
But it is quite revealing that you think you can equate Village Presbyterian with Westboro Baptist, while calling the Rev. Meneily a “bigot.” Of course, you were NEVER resort to name-calling against those with whom you disagree politically, would you?
As for my access to the Star’s library, let me tell you how this Internet thing works. There are things called “search engines.” The one I use most of the time is called “Google.” It’s been around for quite some time. When you type something on their search line, such as “Kay O’Connor 19th Amendment” then click “Search,” all sorts of things come up, including the quote you do not dispute from the Associated Press, not the KC Star.
If you care to look a little deeper, you will find that Kay first spoke her opposition to the 19th Amendment at a forum sponsored by the Johnson County League of Women Voters. She was invited, quite publicly, to a dinner celebrating the 80th anniversary of the 19th Amendment, but declined saying, quite publicly, that it was something she wasn’t going to celebrate. Then she went into her bit about how it was God’s plan that men should run everything, and that women should stay home and raise families.
Now before putting the story on the wire, coast to coast, the AP called her up just to make sure she was being that stupid. But instead of taking the opportunity to say, “You know, it’s a good thing that women can vote and even hold elective office” she dug her hole deeper. And when that story hit the wires, that’s when she became a national laughing stock.
I discovered all this in about five minutes worth of “research” after you tried this: “If you check all those stories in The Star you won’t find a quote of her making any such statement.”
Well, in the first five seconds, I found the quote I posted in which O’Connor made EXACTLY such a statement. And presented with evidence that the sky is indeed blue, you are going to claim that it is still green, and always had been, and it is just some sort of liberal plot, led by the Kansas City Star, that “implies” that the sky is blue.
Karen and John
John,
Put your money where your mouth is, and you won’t even have to pay a dime to the Star. As any fourth grader knows, you can do research with libraries. And thanks to Al Gore, you can even do it at home thanks to Internet magic.
Here you go: http://proxy.kclibrary.org/login?url=http://infoweb.newsbank.com/?db=NEWSBANK&version=phase2&s_sources=location&d_place=KCSB
Now let’s see you prove your point or get ready to offer an apology.
Happy hunting!
@Karen/toothfairy/Derek in drag/Grand Kleagle of the Klan
Your detail of events is a little off. The controversy did in fact occur at a meeting of the League of Women Vultures run by the time by Delores Furtado. The alleged comments that started the controversy weren’t made during the formal meeting, they were made after the meeting when Furtado started baiting O’Connor. Furtado then went to The Star and Finn Bullers wrote about 3 stories about it. The quote “Karen” (yet another argument against anonymous posting) posted is from one of those articles, I think, the second, or third. While the AP did get involved, Bullers did the groundwork.
The allegation made by Furtado, a Democrat (although at the time I think she was still holding herself out as a RINO) was that O’Connor had said she didn’t support a woman’s right to vote. That’s blatantly false and the quote “Karen” provides is as close as Bullers got to getting Kay to say what The Star and Furtado wanted her to say over the course of several lengthy interviews. Instead they substituted a boilerplate statement that they included in their articles that implied that she was opposed to a woman’s right to vote.
Based on these articles Steve Cloud, a Lenexa RINO, held a meeting of the Lenexa Republican Party, one of the two in Johnson County dominated by RINO’s, to demand that Kay step down. Didn’t work even in that kangaroo court. Two people who had witnessed the conversation showed up and both not only refuted Furtado’s allegations, but also pointed out that she was clearly baiting Kay based on her religious beliefs. So that attempt failed and it failed because Furtado, not Kay was a liar. In fact, we know now that she was little more than an agent provocateur when she held herself out as a Republican . Like many other Democrats in Johnson County, she lied about who she was so she could get elected.
Thanks for the link, I got to the sign in portion and my KCK card didn’t work, if memory serves, you have to have a KCMO card to use the library and I need to get that and my Johnson County card renewed.
One final note on the Johnson County League of Women Vultures. Mary Pilcher Cook’s folks filmed them at one of her debates selecting out the audience questions in a manner that was biased against Mary and on other occasions they either held, or threatened to hold, empty seat debates, something the national organization does not do according to their website. In Johnson County they’re essentially stooges for the Democrats. They have little credibility among Republican candidates and a good part of that was Furtado’s misconduct against O’Connor, Pilcher-Cook and other conservative candidates.
“Karen’s” quote speaks for itself, you may not like what it says, and if you don’t tough, but it doesn’t say that she either opposes the 19th Amendment, or a woman’s right to vote (her own behavior should indicate something about her feelings about that for anyone with an open mind, a category excluding our friend “Karen” who could be anyone from the tooth fairy to Derek Donovan in drag).
Again, thanks for the link. I’ve used that before, but I believe it has to be a KCMO library card.
@%
Here’s a thought, you apparently can gain access to this database. Why don’t you go get Bullers’ articles and publish them here in their entirety. That will solve the problem. Everything flowed from his initial work. Don’t worry about looking for a rebuttal from Kay, The Star wouldn’t publish it.
No, John
How about YOU do it? You’re the one making claims that appear to be fanciful. You’ve got access to the database because I just provided it to you. How about YOU back up YOUR claims?
Seems you’re getting backed into a corner here. You’re faced with the prospect of supporting your claims. I’d like to see you work your way out of it.
BS
And I just pointed out that your link doesn’t work. You proposed it, you use it if it works for you. I’m under no obligation to do your work for you. As for my claim being fanciful, I’m perfectly happy with the quote our anonymous poster published, if that’s all she’s got. Where does it say that Kay doesn’t support a woman’s right to vote? You show me that part, and the quote is already right here for all to see, not hidden behind some goofy link that doesn’t work. Quite frankly, I could care less, for all I know you and “Karen” are one and the same person. that’s the problem with letting anonymous posters have any credibility at all.
Here’s a link for you.
http://kansascitykansan.com/blogs/nick-sloan/introducing-kansans-new-commenting-policy/9694#comment-5101
a website that got sick of letting anonymous cowards guide the debate.
Here’s a deal. You post your real name and Karen posts her real name and we’ll figure out how to make your link work and publish the series of articles. If you two? weasels don’t have the courage to do that, you, neither you nor your opinion are worth worrying about because you’re nothing but an empty voice taking gutless potshots from anonymity. I’m ready anytime. Let’s figure out how to get the data. Either put up, or shut up.
Glazer
First we had:
“Nigor You Bring Out The Beast In Us all
craig glazer 08:22:23 PM – Sat. Feb 12. 2011
Boy Billy you sure find a way to piss off the readers. Glad I don’t.”
Followed by:
“Uh….glazer…..please use peoples right name…
harley 08:45:47 AM – Sun. Feb 13. 2011
it’s NIGRO…NOT _________________!”
Yeah, that Glazer can be quite a dick sometimes.
“League of Women Vultures”?
Cute, Altevogt. And par for the course for a phony who was the first to whine about name-calling.
So let’s see. The late Rev. Bob Meneily is a “bigot” just like Fred Phelps.
Village Presbyterian is just like Westboro Baptist.
And now, you can’t seem to manage your way into the KC Star library to do free research. So you get to make up any story you want?
Well, fella. That might work in John Altevogt Fantasy Land, but on the rest of the planet, YOU’RE BUSTED! And all you got left are insults.
John, have you ever taken a good look in the mirror and wondered why nobody ever returns your phone calls any more? How and why you’ve become useless even to the fundie right-wing crowd?
Oh, and Mr. Altevogt?
Pardon me if I don’t post my real name. But I’d have worries about what an unhinged nutcase such as you would be capable of. especially one plagued by the delusions of grandeur that come with narcissistic personality disoder, who now spends his days haunting Internet forums, dreaming of the glory days when he could get at least other nutcases likd him to pay attention to him.
Sorry John
Go to the Kansas City Public Library website, click the databases link and scroll down to the Kansas City Star database. Then go hunting. You’re on the clock. Get working. Let’s see your evidence. Let’s see if you can do it. You OWN research. Enough with the strawman arguments. Let’s see your evidence.
Get to work. Now.
@Karen, her imaginary friend % and “prominent” father $@#
Sorry, jumping through the hoops of nameless trolls and their imaginary friends (apparently too stupid to even think up a second screen name) is not going to happen. Let me repeat my offer to you and then if you haven’t got the spine to own up to who you are who cares what you think? “Karen”, unlike you Kay O’Connor has a record of achievement. She was a State Senator who was repeatedly re-elected by her constituents. You’re a nothing. Here again is my very reasonable two part request for you and your imaginary friend.
I’m perfectly happy with the quote our anonymous poster published, if that’s all she’s got. Where does it say that Kay doesn’t support a woman’s right to vote? You show me that part, (you haven’t) and the quote is already right here for all to see, not hidden behind some goofy link that doesn’t work. Quite frankly, I could care less, for all I know you and “Karen” are one and the same person. that’s the problem with letting anonymous posters have any credibility at all.
Here’s a link for you.
http://kansascitykansan.com/blogs/nick-sloan/introducing-kansans-new-commenting-policy/9694#comment-5101
a website that got sick of letting anonymous cowards guide the debate.
Here’s a deal. You post your real name and Karen posts her real name and we’ll figure out how to make your link work and publish the series of articles. If you two? weasels don’t have the courage to do that, you, neither you nor your opinion are worth worrying about because you’re nothing but an empty voice taking gutless potshots from anonymity. I’m ready anytime. Let’s figure out how to get the data. Either put up, or shut up.
Kansas City Star Sept. 28, 2001
Here’s the article that won Kay O’Connor the retroactive Rand Paul “I didn’t know anybody paid attention to the stupid stuff I say” award
…A prominent female state senator has said that she does not support the 19th Amendment, which guarantees women the right to vote, and that if it were being considered today she would vote against it. Sen. Kay O’Connor recently told the co-presidents of the Johnson County League of Women Voters that the amendment was the first step in a decades-long erosion of traditional family values. The Olathe Republican was in the audience at a public affairs forum on juvenile justice at Johnson County Community College on Sept. 19, when league co-president Delores Furtado asked her if she was planning to attend the league’s “Celebrate the Right to Vote” luncheon. “You probably wouldn’t want me there because of what I would have to say,” O’Connor told Furtado after the forum had ended. “Wasn’t it in the best interest of our country to give women the right to vote?” Furtado asked the senator.
“Not necessarily so,” O’Connor said. Although she does vote, O’Connor said in two subsequent interviews with The Kansas City Star that if men had been protecting the best interests of women, then women would not be forced to cast ballots and serve in the state legislature. Instead, they could stay home, raise families and tend to domestic duties, she said. O’Connor, the Senate’s vice chairman of the elections and local government committee, said she could not help celebrate the 81-year-old piece of legislation, even though it gave her a statewide soapbox to share her views on everything from tax policy to school vouchers. Asked if she supports the 19th Amendment, the Republican lawmaker responded: “I’m an old-fashioned woman. Men should take care of women, and if men were taking care of women (today) we wouldn’t have to vote. “I’m sorry women have not been taken more care of,” she said. “We have gotten the short end of the stick.” If the measure were up for ratification today, she said, she would not support it. Furtado said she was dumbfounded by those views. Furtado said she was dumbfounded by those views. If O’Connor was just an ordinary citizen, Furtado said, “I’d say fine.” But when she serves in the Senate, she represents many people. “She is the beneficiary of a system she doesn’t support.” Beginning in the 1960s, O’Connor said in an interview, career doors began to open for women, bolstered by efforts of the earlier women’s suffrage movement. The message to women, reinforced by books, television and magazines, O’Connor said, was to abandon more traditional homemaker roles and enter the workplace. And with the onset of higher taxes to finance social welfare programs, said O’Connor, a 15-year homemaker, a second household income was necessary to make ends meet. Consequently, the 19th Amendment was the beginning of a societal shift that today erodes traditional family values, she said. O’Connor said that in her case, mounting medical bills to care for a sick daughter forced her into the workplace. Rules created by men did not allow her the opportunity to stay at home and care for her child, she said. Searching for something to do in retirement, O’Connor got into politics by accident when she was drafted by a neighborhood gathering to run for the House of Representatives in 1992. O’Connor, who concedes she has a reputation for speaking her mind, said she was not afraid to let her view be known. “My husband is the head of the household and I am the heart. And the head can’t live without the heart,” she said during the interview. “I offer my suggestions, but I give (my husband) the right to make the final decision.” As a state leader, O’Connor said, it is more important to stay true to her convictions than simply mirror the views of her constituents. “And if I don’t get re-elected, my only punishment is to go home to my husband and my roses and my children and my grandchildren,” she said. “And if the trips to Topeka get to be too much and my husband asks me to quit … I would.” O’Connor has just completed the first year of a four-year term in the Senate after serving eight years in the House of Representatives. League co-president Janis McMillan also was surprised by O’Connor’s views.
“It is mind-boggling,” said McMillan. “Kay is proud of (her position) and isn’t hesitant to tell anyone.”
OK
Fair enough, John. You’ve been exposed.
Thank you
Learn to read. No where in that article is there a quote from O’Connor saying that she does not support a woman’s right to vote, or would not vote for the 19th Amendment. The quotes that state that are from Furtado, not O’Connor. Note the comments from the story.
A prominent female state senator has said that she does not support the 19th Amendment, which guarantees women the right to vote (note absence of quotes, this is Furtado’s allegation).
The Olathe Republican was in the audience at a public affairs forum on juvenile justice at Johnson County Community College (note that this contradicts “Karen’s” version of the story which has Kay as the speaker at a forum when the comments were made)
Now here’s the important part for you idiots to understand:
As a state leader, O’Connor said, it is more important to stay true to her convictions than simply mirror the views of her constituents. “And if I don’t get re-elected, my only punishment is to go home to my husband and my roses and my children and my grandchildren,”
Bottom line, is that she was re-elected by her constituents long after this manufactured controversy had occurred. The one thing that has been said today that I agree with from you morons is that I do need to be focusing on projects that will elect more fine leaders like Kay O’Connor and less time bickering with anonymous teeny boppers who will never amount to anything.
Thanks again to RINO Sandberg for posting the article. I’ll do a cut and paste and keep it around. Appreciate it. This all could have been avoided if you idiots would learn to read and understand the difference between an actual quote and a phony allegation.
O’Connor told Furtado after the forum had ended. “Wasn’t it in the best interest of our country to give women the right to vote?” Furtado asked the senator.
“Not necessarily so,” O’Connor said. (again, note that the quotes here are in a comment attributed to O’Connor by Furtado) Mary Picher Cook and another woman were witnesses to this conversation, neither were ever interviewed by The Star and both repudiate Furtado’s claims)
If the measure were up for ratification today, she said, she would not support it. (again, no quotes. If she said it, why are there no quotes? Bullers interviewed her 3 times at length and yet no quotes that say she wouldn’t support the legislation today, or that women shouldn’t vote. None. Her main argument is that men simply haven’t done the jobs they’re supposed to do according to her religious beliefs. So what?)
Oops
Kinda got my paragraphs out of sequence during tha cut and paste, but so what, you morons with your closed little minds aren’t going to get it anyway. Have a nice life.
Dunno John
That article makes it pretty clear she doesn’t support a women’s right to vote. She is asked specifically if she supports the Women’s Suffrage amendment, and she says it’s the man’s job to take care of it.
So you’re wrong. Again.
She also didn’t enjoy the widespread support of her constituents or the state of Kansas. She was savagely rejected, even by Johnson County voters, when she ran for secretary of state.
“The one thing that has been said today that I agree with from you morons is that I do need to be focusing on projects that will elect more fine leaders like Kay O’Connor and less time bickering with anonymous teeny boppers who will never amount to anything.”
And this is how you flushed both your political career and real estate career down the toilet to the point that not even the Tea Party wants anything to do with you.
You are such a narcissistic megalomaniac, with such delusions about your own importance that you hold the rest of the human race in such disdain, easy to manipulate. And when they prove to be not only smarter than you give them credit for, but much smarter than you, you go ballistic.
It’s happened lots of times, John-boy. Go get some help. But of course, that would involve honest and serious self-evaluation, and I’m betting you won’t like what you’ll find.
I Thought This Was An Argument Re. The Star
and it’s piss poor reporting on things it “doesn’t like”. Cant we all just agree that the star, like most all news outlets these days, have completely lost their journalistic integrity? Personally Hearne and the crossword puzzle used to be the only reason I bought the star. Since he left I cant justfy spending 1.25 for a crossword puzzle (especially since the smoking ban/economic downturn have crushed my income by a little more than 1/3).
I guess it would have been easier for HC just to write: “If you are misquoted in the star, fuck off and write your own article”